Hi all, I don't have time now to re familiarize with this entire thread. I will later tho, I don't understand how I got so far behind. I live and breath earthquakes FCOL! Sorry if this is a duplicate but I stumbled onto it earlier while cleaning coffee and mucus out of my keyboard. http://www.quakecasts.com/
Applicable items are easy enuff to find I would include a quote or two but my typing skills are even worse than my reading. Weighing in on cause and effect I would add my gut says the ionosphere is effecting the lithosphere as opposed to the other way around. Neither of my brain cells have anything to add.
Ion01
Re: Electric Earthquakes
Thanks for the link to quakecast! Although they don't have anything near oklahoma it has a lot of great information and will be very interesting to follow. I found this article most interesting. Particularly the experiment in which applying pressure to "rock" produced electric currents. I do however believe they are missing what the mechanism is causing the pressure which would bring us back to the basic EU connections of the earth and sun environment. http://www.quakecasts.com/earthquake-prediction/are-tectonic-pressures-changing-the-ionosphere-before-earthquak es/
Ion01
Re: Electric Earthquakes
So in light of the resent coronal hole and cme from the sun that will be effecting the earth: any thoughts on what we should expect from this in regards to earthquakes? Anything to be expected in Oklahoma considering the recent events there?
Komorikid
Re: Electric Earthquakes
I don't know if this has been shown here before. I searched for Lance Endersbee and couldn't find any reference in the TB Forums.
The first half of the lecture is on CO2 and is interesting in itself especially in relation to the Climate Change meme. But the second part on the Electric Universe is very enlightening given that this is not a EU venue. Endersbee's correlation of EU with weather/volcano/earthquake activity is breathtaking.
Officials said Saturday they believe the latest earthquake activity in northeast Ohio is related to the injection of wastewater into the ground near a fault line, creating enough pressure to cause seismic activity.
The brine wastewater comes from drilling operations that use the so-called fracking process to extract gas from underground shale. But Ohio Department of Natural Resources Director Jim Zehringer said during a news teleconference that fracking is not causing the quakes.
"The seismic events are not a direct result of fracking," he said.
Environmentalists and property owners who live near gas drilling wells have questioned the safety of fracking to the environment and public health. Federal regulators have declared the technology safe, however.
Zehringer said four injection wells within a 5-mile (8-kilometer) radius of an already shuttered well in Youngstown will remain inactive while further scientific research is conducted.
A 4.0 magnitude quake Saturday afternoon in McDonald, outside of Youngstown, was the 11th in a series of minor earthquakes in area, many of which have struck near the Youngstown injection well. The quake caused no serious injuries or property damage, Zehringer said.
Thousands of gallons of brine were injected into the well daily until its owner, Northstar Disposal Services LLC, agreed Friday to stop injecting brine into the earth as a precaution while authorities assess any potential links to the quakes.
Michael Hansen of the Ohio Seismic Network said Saturday that more quakes are possible, most likely small ones, until the pressure at the fault line has been completely relieved.
The temblor Saturday appeared to be stronger than others, which generally had a magnitude of 2.7 or lower. Some residents reported feeling trembling farther south into Columbiana County and east into western Pennsylvania.
Area residents said a loud boom accompanied the shaking. It sent some stunned residents running for cover as bookshelves shook and pictures and lamps fell from tables.
A few miles from the epicenter, Charles Kihm said he was preparing food in his kitchen when he heard a noise and thought a vehicle had hit his Austintown home.
"It really shook, and it rumbled, like there was a sound," said Kihm, 82. "It was loud. It didn't last long. But it really scared me."
There are 177 similar injection wells around the state, and the Youngstown-area well has been the only site with seismic activity, the department said. Zehringer said that to shut down all of the wells because of seismic activity near one would be an overreaction.
ElecGeekMom
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
I saw a similar piece on a news show on TV this morning. As I understand it, a "fracking" operation is not necessarily the same thing as an injection/disposal well.
IMHO, the earthquakes are more likely to occur where injection wells (sites where petroleum formerly was, but has been removed) are being used for the disposal of brine and other high-mineral substances. I don't believe that the removal of petroleum alone is the cause of earthquakes. Nor do I believe that the injection of brine back into the ground is, alone, the cause of earthquakes.
As I understand it, petroleum has much less electrical conductivity than brine. If you remove petroleum from a well and replace it with brine, you increase the electrical conductivity over its previous level. It seems to me that it's something like creating a 3D IC in the ground, but instead of using gold or copper to conduct the electricity, the flow is along the places where the brine is concentrated.
IMHO, the timing of an earthquake is related to the timing of the grounding of plasmoids (see Tolenio's posts) in a particular area. I think this fits in well with the concept that earthquakes are "underground lightning".
I have been able, taking Tolenio's hypothesis into consideration, to predict within ~1-2 days when to expect an earthquake to show up on the USGS and IRIS charts in my area (Oklahoma). The only thing I lack is a way to track the use of the hundreds of injection wells in the state, that is, the amount of brine and such that is being injected at which locations. I think if I had the injection well activity, it would be possible to also come closer to specifying a location for the next earthquake, and maybe even a range for its magnitude (but that's more dependent on the solar activity and its fluctuation).
Ion01
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
ElecGeekMom- I think you are right on with your assessment of why injection wells would result in increased earthquake activity in regards to the higher electrical conductivity. I am particularly interested in how, exactly you are predicting these quakes in oklahoma as I live there as well (edmond/okc area). Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
ElecGeekMom
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
According to Tolenio, it takes approximately 13 days for the energy from a plasmoid to reach Oklahoma. The starting point is determined by looking at the K index chart on spaceweather.com. When there is a peak at level 3 or above, that is an indication that a plasmoid has reached Earth from the sun. From what I can tell, the sun's CMEs and/or solar flares (which can be seen on the Xray flux chart on spaceweather.com) are the source of the plasmoids. It seems to take roughly 1-2 days for there to be a spike in the K index after there is a CME or solar flare, although stronger ones seem to reach us more quickly.
It seems that the plasmoids tend to first touch ground on Earth in the vicinity of the Indian Ocean. About the time the K index spikes, I often see earthquakes between the Indian Ocean and Japan within a day or so. They travel east from there. It most often takes about 13 days for the energy to reach Oklahoma. I am also just starting to notice that temporary warmer-than-usual temperatures here are associated with earthquakes, which seems to also be an indicator of the presence of a plasmoid. Yesterday and today are warmer than usual, and we had an earthquake in the news this morning.
I saw level 3 spikes in the K index on Jan. 3 and 5, so I put notations on my calendar to look for an earthquake on Jan. 16 and 18. We'll see what happens. Sometimes the plasmoids concentrate their energy in the southern hemisphere, and we see no earthquakes here at the calculated time. Sometimes both hemispheres get earthquakes at about the same time. IIRC, those were cases when the K index spike was lots higher. I'd have to dig out the images I saved. I don't usually save the USGS maps, but I may have to start doing that, too.
Sparky
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
I have never understood how electrical activity in Earth could "cause" an earthquake. I can see how seismic activity could cause an electrical discharge.
Could that be what is being detected, stress, manifesting as electrical activity, before the seismic event?
ElecGeekMom
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
Some people are actively looking for patterns of anomalous electrical activity before earthquakes. They are trying to see if it can be used as a precursor that might be useful in predicting earthquakes.
I don't know how successful that will be. I think people have been trying to do that for a long time, in different places around the world.
If they could get something working in the way of earthquake prediction that is even as successful as the current methods of predicting and locating tornadoes, that would be somewhat helpful. Living in Oklahoma, I've experienced a few tornado watches and warnings. When I was a kid, we were lucky to get 10 minutes' notice, usually by the local police driving around neighborhood blowing their sirens. Now, successful predictions of tornado weather are made 2-3 days in advance. That amazes me! Of course, there is still a place for storm chasers, the folks who go out in storms, looking for funnels and validating what the weathermen are seeing on their radar.
Of course, the trouble tornadoes cause is much more localized than the trouble that earthquakes (big ones) cause. That's why I say it would only be "somewhat helpful". If you knew that The Big One was going to hit L.A. next Tuesday, would that be enough time to evacuate that area? I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make that decision.
Maol
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
Sparky wrote: I have never understood how electrical activity in Earth could "cause" an earthquake. I can see how seismic activity could cause an electrical discharge.
Could that be what is being detected, stress, manifesting as electrical activity, before the seismic event?
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
Maol wrote:
Sparky wrote: I have never understood how electrical activity in Earth could "cause" an earthquake. I can see how seismic activity could cause an electrical discharge.
Could that be what is being detected, stress, manifesting as electrical activity, before the seismic event?
Do you understand piezoelectricity?
No....does anyone?...Do I need to?
webolife
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
Doesn't Sparky's intuitive description correspond to piezoelectricity?
mharratsc
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
I concur. I think they are creating a pathway for subterranean-to-atmospheric electrical equalization, and that the rumble and 'thunder' is the sound of the charge exceeding the threshhold and the double-layer breaking down.
Easy way to check- someone needs to set up a meter to monitor the fair weather field at the site, and compare the value to a control site a hundred miles away, and remove any transient atmospheric readings (thunderstorms and whatnot) and see if we don't have a high-power situation going on there. :
Sparky
Re: Fracking Injection of Wells cause earthquakes?
I was watching a program about volcanoes and they were placing sensors around the volcano to measure the movement of the ground. It seems the earth is heaved up and aside just before an eruption.
Another guy was setting muon detectors around the volcano to get an xray like image of it's insides...
If i could spell peezeyoelectric, i would have used that word.
