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Lloyd Kinder

That's my name. I'm over 60. I live near St. Louis, MO in Illinois, north of St. Charles, MO.

Here are links to some of my online work:
Natural Health: nhc.lefora.com
Humane Religion: bilib.webs.com
Science: username Lloyd at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/index.php
Progressive Libertarianism: username Luck at http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=63.0

I got interested in Catastrophism in 1969 in my second year in college when my roommate, an art student, introduced me, an engineering major, to Velikovsky's book, Worlds in Collision, which claimed that Venus encountered Earth at the time of the Exodus around 1450 BC and again later and Mars encountered Earth a few times starting in 687 BC or so. I was confused why science seemed to ignore the findings listed in that book, so I supposed that it had been discredited. But I heard about a new Catastrophist magazine, called Pensee', 2 years later and I subscribed to it. The most interesting discussions to me were by Ralph Juergens which described evidence of electric discharge features on the Moon and Mars that supported some of Velikovsky's major claims.

After 3 years Pensee' folded, but another new magazine started, called Kronos. Kronos means Saturn, suggestive of the Saturn Theory that many of its writers discussed. Velikovsky never published his own Saturn Theory, but he mentioned it briefly in his book. Talbott, who had edited Pensee', and Cardona, who helped edit Kronos, had studied mythology enough by this time, the late 70s, to find that Velikovsky appeared to be correct in claiming that Earth was once a moon of Saturn. That's quite an exciting finding. They failed to find evidence though that Venus and Mars encountered Earth in the first or second millennium BC. But, being also former moons of Saturn, they would have been very close to Earth and they probably had encounters over a thousand years before Velikovsky claimed.

Kronos folded in the mid 1980s, but I bought some issues then of magazines, Catastrophism and Ancient History, and Aeon. In the late 90s the newsletter, Thoth, was published only online and is still available there. That's when I first heard of Thornhill's incredible theory that, not only was Earth a moon of Saturn, but Saturn originated outside of the solar system and Earth did too, still as its moon. After 7 or 8 years Thoth folded, but was replaced by the Thunderbolts.info website which in 2007 finally included a good forum (which crashed but renewed in 2008).

I learned a lot from all of that material and I thought Thornhill's ideas about electrical formation of stars, planets etc was probably correct. I made a lot of independent findings myself, which I shared on the forum. Some of the main ones were: (1) demonstration of rapid deposition of rock strata at sedimentology.fr, (2) Walter Brown's info about the Grand Canyon forming by breaching and draining two ancient lakes, contrary to Thornhill's electric discharge model for the carving of the canyon, (3) his findings that the mammoths etc were killed by a meteoric impact or airburst; (4) Shock Dynamics at newgeology.us regarding a major impact as the cause of the breakup of the supercontinent and rapid continental drift within days; (5) Cook's theory about a planetary encounter that caused an airburst that destroyed life in North America and produced megalightning that carved the Great Lakes; and (6) Miles Mathis' findings of major errors in physics and astronomy.

Two or three years ago I met Charles on the Thunderbolts forum. He was discussing electric weather phenomena, especially tornadoes. He claimed that the electric power for tornadoes didn't come from outside of the Earth and its atmosphere, as Thornhill claimed, and Charles' reasoning seemed sound, so I began to seriously doubt some of Thornhill's claims.

About a year ago Charles had returned to the forum to discuss his Electric Sun model, which wasn't well developed yet. I found it interesting and asked if he'd like to have private discussion with several forum members. He agreed and I was lucky to find Brant and Michael were also interested. So the four of us had weekly discussions online by text for several months. That was very productive and it showed me that the EU Anode Sun model with electric power coming from outside the solar system is very implausible.

I tried to interest the EU (Electric Universe) team at Thunderbolts.info in having a public friendly debate with our Cathode Sun group, but they weren't interested and didn't even want to discuss with us privately. Then I tried to start a debate with just the regular forum members, but there seemed to be little interest and much resistance to alternatives to the Anode Sun model.

Hopefully, this site will provide opportunity for more productive discussions and collaboration. I expect that we'll continue to make a lot of scientific progress among our group members.


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