PP: How did Mars get so close to Earth to the extent that it could connect to the Earth in the form of a "chain of arrows"?
* Mars and Venus were moons of Saturn, just like Earth was, but they were closer to Saturn, so they were visible from Earth. The chain of arrows, if it was a variation of the polar column, or plasma column, extended from Earth's north pole to Saturn's south pole and to the poles of Mars and Venus in between, although for much of the time, from the viewpoint on Earth, Mars and Venus appeared to be part of Saturn, so the chain was not seen to go between the others. Mars later became unstable and periodically moved close to Earth and then back up close to Venus, cyclically, and, later, Venus became unstable as well, and then the Saturn System broke up. That's my best understanding of their model for now, but it may not be entirely accurate.
PersianPaladin
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
Lloyd wrote: Chain of Arrows to Mars
PP: How did Mars get so close to Earth to the extent that it could connect to the Earth in the form of a "chain of arrows"?
* Mars and Venus were moons of Saturn, just like Earth was, but they were closer to Saturn, so they were visible from Earth. The chain of arrows, if it was a variation of the polar column, or plasma column, extended from Earth's north pole to Saturn's south pole and to the poles of Mars and Venus in between, although for much of the time, from the viewpoint on Earth, Mars and Venus appeared to be part of Saturn, so the chain was not seen to go between the others. Mars later became unstable and periodically moved close to Earth and then back up close to Venus, cyclically, and, later, Venus became unstable as well, and then the Saturn System broke up. That's my best understanding of their model for now, but it may not be entirely accurate.
Ev Cochrane's article on the mythic "Ladder Of Heaven" (and it's evolving state), how it connects with the passage of Mars close to the earth, and how it connects with plasma in the laboratory.
Saturn Was a Brown Dwarf - The optical spectra of the coolest stars, class M, are dominated by absorption bands of titanium(II) oxide (TiO) and vanadium(II) oxide (VO) molecules. - L dwarf star spectra have strong metal hydride bands (FeH, CrH, MgH, CaH) and prominent alkali metal lines (Na I, K I, Cs I, Rb I) and show strong absorption bands of H2O and carbon monoxide (CO). These are red dwarfs. - T dwarf spectra are dominated by absorption bands from methane (CH4), a feature that was only found in the giant planets of the Solar System and Saturn's moon, Titan. They lack the FeH and CrH bands that characterize L dwarfs and instead are influenced by exceptionally broad absorption features from the alkali metals Na and K. These are brown dwarfs, actually magenta. - So gas giants of the Solar System, and even Titan, have the same spectra as T dwarf stars, or brown dwarfs. * The nearest brown dwarf, UGPSJ0722-05, is located within 10 light-years from Earth. It could have a surface temperature as low as 400 Kelvin. There is an anomalous absorption line from some chemical in its atmosphere that absorbs infrared radiation at a wavelength of 1.25 micrometers. * http://www.keckobservatory.org/cosmicmatters/milestones.htm http://keckobservatory.org/images/files/magazine/spring09_1~ This image shows a faint brown dwarf in our solar neighborhood, about 110 light years from Earth. The inset image shows a high angular resolution image obtained with the laser guide star adaptive optics system on the Keck II Telescope, showing that the brown dwarf is actually a binary system. About 15 percent of brown dwarfs near Earth are found in binaries. Credits: Xiaohui Fan and the Sloan Digital Sky Survey Collaboration; Michael Liu, IfA, University of Hawaii. http://keckobservatory.org/images/files/magazine/spring09_1~
This infrared image of the very low-temperature binary 2MASS 1534-2952AB was obtained with the Laser Guide Star Adaptive Optics system on the Keck II Telescope. This binary is composed of two methane brown dwarfs, the coolest class of free-floating objects identified to date. The two components each have temperatures of about 1300 degrees Farenheit and emit about 1/100,000 the energy of the Sun. With a total mass of only 60 Jupiter masses, this is the lightest object ever directly weighed outside the Solar System. Credit: Dr. Michael Liu, IfA, University of Hawaii.
Sparky
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
this is the lightest object ever directly weighed
Dave
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
The Universe is not driven by the weakest force in Nature known as "gravity" - some ten to the power of 39 times weaker than proton-proton or electron-electron repulsion, or electron-proton attraction - but by electromagnetism and plasma physics. It's an Electric Universe, maybe infinite and eternal. Gravity is probably electrical - you don't think the most massive dinosaurs could have been able to stand up, let alone walk and run or fly, in the Earth's present-day gravity and atmosphere, do you?
If the universe were driven by attraction-only gravity, it would have collapsed long ago. It most surely stands to reason that for the very big jobs, Nature would use the strongest attractive and repulsive forces at its disposal - the electric forces. The Big Bang, Black Holes, neutron stars, dark matter, dark energy, warped spacetime and other fancy gobbledygook are impossible, laughable absurdities. Without Einstein, but with a Maxwell-Lorentz ether, a gravity-driven universe would never have got off the ground.
Admitting an electric universe opens the door and could lead (as Nikola Tesla well knew) to free energy. To the Matrix imposers who want to own us by monitoring, tracking, metering and charging us for everything: That is Forbidden!
In order to understand what our ancestors were trying to tell us, we have to understand how the Solar System really formed. The Earth has experienced major, literally earth-shattering and terra-forming, catastrophies in the past - it was one hell of a ride for our ancestors some 5,000-10,000 years ago. Why do you think the planet Venus was obsessively monitored worldwide and made, among many motifs, a ravaging witch-on-a-broomstick and a beautiful virgin goddess by nearly all cultures? Why was the planet Mars made the god of war? Why was the planet Saturn described as an ancient sun?
There is only one answer: the Solar System we see today is radically different from the one our ancestors saw; and almost all major myths, worldwide, are describing the life and violent death (Armageddon; Ragnarok; etc.) of the longlived Saturnian Golden Age (The Otherworld) and the creation of the present Solar System (The Apocalypse - from the Greek meaning "The Unveiling": New Earth, New Heaven, New World). But they are not myths: they are a true record of what our ancestors actually experienced, up close and personal.
For our ancestors, this - the creation of the Solar System as we know it - is when time began; and it could be measured, for they could now see the present metronomic Sun, Moon and the stars; and it was also the time of a massive leap in human consciousness - literally shocked into a higher level - with the consequent birth of civilizations: the Earth and all its inhabitants became fully plugged into the Electric Universe. Let there be Light.
The archetypal Red Dragon symbolizes the planet Mars. The planet Mars - to countless cultures worldwide - was the saviour of mankind, god of war, redeemer, healer, pest and disease bringer, destroyer of worlds, miracle worker, fertility god, etc...etc, who sacrificed himself to save the Earth by being crucified on the Axis Mundi, Tree of Life, Navel or Mountain of the Earth, World Tree, Pillars of Hercules (Atlantis, anyone?), etc...etc. These were probably all descriptions of the Birkeland currents connecting Earth and Saturn, where Mars and Venus (and other satellites of Saturn) interacted physically and electrically with this gigantic "serpent" or "whale" or "dragon" or "behemoth" or "rope" or "ladder" or "stairway" or "leviathan", etc...etc, a.k.a. Typhon (Greek) or Tiamat (Babylonian) or Set (Egyptian) or Vritra (Brahman) or Jormungand (Norse) or Kukulkan (Mayan) or Quetzalcoatl (Aztec), etc...etc. This coiled, crooked, hurricane-like, milky (later blood-red) column or whirlwind (i.e. a typhoon - derived from Typhon; and probably the original Milky Way) churned out the Arctic Ocean and at sometime caused the arctic (at that time, temperate) fauna to be electrocuted and flash-frozen. The Earth was flooded when these Birkeland currents (and all the water, plasma, gas, dust, boulders, rocks, stones and debris they contained) collapsed - "slain" by Mars (Babylonian: Marduk; Red dragon defeats white dragon - Merlin) or sometimes by Saturn - and so severing Earth from Heaven. The Earth, Mars and the comet Venus (and maybe the Moon and Mercury) were now free to migrate to the inner Solar System - a perilous, terrible Four-Horsemen-of-the-Apocalypse journey with the Earth being continually terra-formed by electric arc-discharge machining and mountain upheavals carried out principally by Mars and Venus on their frequent close encounters with the Earth.
Mars took a battering - wounded in the side, thigh or heel, scarred on the face, incinerated, melted, and in some cultures had his "skull shattered to pieces" - which may well explain the creation of the Asteroid Belt. For our ancestors, the planet Mars was also their leader or shepherd who brought them out of the Saturnian half-darkness (The Twilight of the Gods) into the present Solar System, out of Egypt into the land of milk and honey, as it were.
All ancient societies, tribes, nations boast of the planets Saturn, Venus or Mars, under countless names, as being their creator, first ancestor, founder, protector, father, mother, saviour. And they believed that one day the Red Dragon will return to free his people and restore goodness to the world. Many buried their dead with red ochre and facing North where the Saturnian system, and that of course includes Mars, was once located. The Egyptians went much further in that their Pharoahs were expected to actually recreate or at least rejoin the Saturnian system - The Golden Age - in their afterlife.
To the priests of Judah, YHWH was the planet Saturn. Israel never existed on Earth - only in the Saturnian sky. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon, Samson, Jonah, etc...etc, were different aspects of the planets Saturn or Mars; Miriam, Esther, Ishtar, Astarte, Asherah, et al, were the planet Venus. God, Father, Elohim, El Shaddai, Jehovah, Lord of the Mountain are also the head-honcho planet Saturn. Hell, even today, their holy day - Shabbat - is the planet Saturn's day.
Whoever wrote the New Testament gospels (probably the Romanized Maccabees) were indeed smartasses - the main character, Jesus Christ, is basically the planet Mars; the Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene, Salome, and probably other Meri/Marys, are all different aspects of the planet Venus. The main purpose of the NT is to remind Christians to pay taxes lovingly on time (and turn the other cheek, sucker) and to unwittingly (or wittingly for some, come to think of it) worship the god of war.
The major gods of the Egyptians were: Osiris/Atum/Amun/Amen/Ra/Re - Saturn (Pharoah Akhenaten tried unsuccessfully to introduce worship of the one god only: Aten - the present Sun); Isis/Meri/Sekhmet - Venus; and Horus - Mars (The Sphinx is "Horus the Red" and represents the gate-keeper planet Mars). The same trinity/triad is found in countless cultures, worldwide, eg. to the Sumerians they were Shamash, Inanna and Nergal. This triad is also depicted on the national flag of Wales. (The classic Celtic Cross symbolises the Saturnian system, depicting the Axis Mundi with Saturn, Venus and Mars atop it).
To the ancient Welsh (Britons), the planet Saturn (in the Otherworld, located way above the North Pole) was The Holy Grail, the magic cauldron, the head on a platter, Caer Gwydyon; Arthur ("not a king, a warlord") of legend is the planet Mars (Arthur's "wife" was Gwenhwyfar - White or Blessed Spirit, i.e. Holy Ghost, i.e. Venus); Branwen (White Crow), Arianrhod (Silverwheel), Olwen (White Track) and many other Welsh characters are different stages in the life of the newly-born planet Venus: Athene (Venus) did indeed come "out of the head of Zeus" (Saturn).
The wife [Venus] of Huan(1) [Sun] ap Dôn(2) [Sky goddess, cf. Hathor] was a party to the killing of her husband [Mars. Venus interacted electrically with both Saturn and Mars and was, just like Isis (Venus) with Osiris (Saturn) and Horus (Mars), considered the "wife" of both of them and also the "mother" of Mars], and she [Venus] said that he [Mars] had gone to hunt away from home [left the Saturnian System]. And his father, Gwydion [Saturn], the King of Gwynedd [White or Blessed Land], traversed all countries in search of him [Mars], and at last made Caer Gwydion(3) [Saturn Citadel. cf. Homer's Troy - not to be confused with the two-bit Hisarlik], that is the via lactea [Milky Way - but not as we know it - cf. Hathor], which is in the sky, to seek him. And he found him in heaven, where was his soul [Mars had taken a battering - wounded in the side, thigh or heel, scarred on the face, incinerated, melted, and in some cultures had had his "skull shattered to pieces" - which may well explain the creation of the Asteroid Belt]. And for that he turned the young wife [Venus] into a bird [maybe owl - many cultures have this motif for Venus; but could also be Branwen - White (female) Crow/Raven - also a common Venus archetype; Raven for Saturn and Raven-Boy for Mars were common epithets among the Native Americans] and she [Venus] fled [became a comet] from her father-in-law [and "husband", Saturn], and [he, Saturn] is called to this day Twyll Huan(4) [Tywyll Huan - Dark Sun. Twyll (deceit) and tywyll (dark) sound almost identical]. Thus, after the manner of the Greeks, the Britons formerly treated their stories and tales [true history] in order to keep them in memory [if they were merely stories and tales they would not have kept them so assiduously, meticulously, in memory; and certainly not the etymology of the word for an owl !].
NOTES
1. Huan ap Dôn [Sun of the Sky]: the figure here is obviously Lleu Llaw Gyffes [Mars. Gyffes is cyffes - "confession" or "acknowledgement". I suggest Left Hand Light: facing east to the present Sunrise, the right (Welsh "de") hand ("llaw") would be to the south (also "de"), the raised left hand would be to the north, acknowledging where the Saturnian system was once located, way above the North Pole], and this short text is a retelling of the final section of the Mabinogi [Mabinogion: Mabyn o g(wyd)yon - Children from/of Saturn); why his name is Huan, "Sun," is a difficult question (see note 3). [In many cultures worldwide, Saturn is described as an ancient or dark sun]. "Lleu" is certainly derived from Lugh, in which the "gh" is essentially silent; Lugh is in turn derived from "Lugus", which ultimately derives from the hypothetical proto-Indo-European *Leug- "oath/swear." In other words, he is originally the god of the oath, Dumezil's Mitra to Nuada's Varuna. Thus, Lleu was not originally a god of light; however, the similarity between *leug- (oath) and *leuk- (light) may have influenced the idea that Lugus (and thus Lugh and Lleu) was somehow associated with light, at least in late Iron Age/early medieval thought. [Lleu is light, as in modern Welsh lleuad - moon; or goleuad - light or luminary].
2. Huan/Lleu's [Saturn/Mars] pedigree here is confusing, as traditionally his [Lleu's] mother is Arianrhod [Silver Wheel. Saturn-Venus electric-discharge intercourse, where Venus looked like a silver wheel from Earth], making Dôn [Sky] his grandmother [same sky]. Moreover, Gwydion [Saturn] is also the son of Dôn [Sky], and so Lleu/Huan [they are not the same entity] would be the product of Gwydion's incest, either with his sister or his mother; the sister is more likely. [Blimey. Since they are the sky and planets, no incest is involved].
3. Caer Gwydion: there is some tradition that the Milky Way is called Caer Wydyon in Welsh; whether this is actual medieval tradition, or influenced by the antiquarians, I am not sure. [cf. Hathor/Nut - Supreme Sky and Milk goddess - depicted as a sky-arch with teats, with all the god-planets "beneath her feet". However, Saturn Citadel is a much better interpretation of Caer Gwydion].
4. Twyll Huan [literally "Deception Sun" - does not make sense]: The story is an attempt to explain the word tylluan, the owl. [No, this is nonsense by Mr Jones, hiding the true meaning: the dimming or darkening of Saturn]. In this bit of folk etymology, tylluan is divided into twyll [there is no justification in adding a "w"; tyll does not sound like twyll] and (h)uan [there is no justification in adding the "h"], the sun. Thus, the composer changed Lleu's name to Huan, [this assumption should never have been made], which he may have thought fitting. [Ha! it's what Mr Jones thought "fitting"! ].
[In modern Welsh, the Sun is Haul (m); Huan (f) is not commonly used].
SOURCE Jones, T. Gwynn. Welsh Folklore and Folk-Custom. London: Methuen & Co. LTD, 1930. p.16.
Saturn's golden age has passed Saturn's age could never last Now while Caesar holds the stage This must be an iron age. Suetonius, Roman historian 1st century BC
This is he ... who shall again set up the Golden Age amid the fields where Saturn once reigned. Virgil, Aeneid 6.790
Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past. 1984, George Orwell
THE TRUTH WILL OUT ... SOON.
CTJG 1986
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
Dave wrote: Lots of interesting info too long for quote block.
Thank you for posting this information and links and such, I've been trying to say much of the same thing in other threads in NIAMI but I'm poorly skilled at organizing things in such a succinct and 'scientific' manner.
One thing I would like to point out is that my own conclusion that Mars = Christ crucified on the cross has altered somewhat recently with the realization that I was missing part of the the storyline - the evil king that spears Christ's abdomen while She hangs on the cross.
Depending on the orientation of the entire system at the time the evil king at the foot of the cross spearing Christ must either be Saturn or Mars, or possibly some other 'player' I haven't recognized/have confused so far.
The 3 crosses on the hill top of the Crucifixion and the tripled barred cross used by some Christian sects for symbolizing Bishopric powers symbolize the 3 side-by-side or 'stacked' atop each other(would change obviously as the modern Earth rotated on the Axis and/or the planets themselves moved).
So by my reasoning Venus would be the one hanging on the cross in the case of the 'stacked' triple barred cross, and Mars and Saturn would be the 2 criminals crucified on either side of Venus in side-by-side 'mode'.
Though the actual image of Jesus on the cross is symbolic of the 'Eye of Providence' or in other words the 3 planets/stars aligned together.
There is lot's of mashing together of symbolism in the Christian theology/mythology which makes it difficult to decipher at times, so as always I welcome being corrected if someone has a good argument against this thesis.
Thanks again for the post Dave.
Cheers, Jonny
CTJG 1986
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
As an added note on all this from the past 2 posts it's important to note that Christ/Venus died 'for our sins', was entombed behind a Rock(Mars) and then rose again 3 days later.
She died as Christ, she rose as Lucifer(Lucy Love). With Satan/Mars/The Prince of Darkness at her side(I think, still not sure as some references to the darkness and Satan seem to refer to Venus as well).
As per various occult literature as Satan rose against the Devil/The Holy Father/Saturn he became wounded and could go no further so he thrust himself upon his own spear/sword.
As the the last breath left him a 'million angels'(Venus it would seem) rushed forward to his assistance to cast the Devil/Holy Father/Saturn into a thousand year prison of fire in the underworld/Hell. (Hence 'suicide' is evil)
This story may be more familiar to users here by the Greek version in which the Tyrannical God King Kronos who re-imprisoned the other Gods(Mars and Venus/Zeus and Athena) is overthrown by Zeus and Athena and cast into the underworld/Tartarus after the 'Battle of the Titans'.
God prison sucks... It's time for The Breakout... -
(note the mountain-top monument in the background - 'twin towers' with the 5 pointed star(Venus) suspended between them.)
Jesus H Christ that's a wonderful looking monument.
Cheers, Jonny
Xuxalina Rihhia
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
We know that in deep space Saturn was a brown dwarf star, since stars are powered externally by electricity and not nuclear physics. What would Saturn have looked like in the sky of Earth when it was our sun and not the sun of today? It was said to have a purple plasmasphere, because brown dwarfs have plasmaspheres that are powered by electricity and they give off lots of blue, violet and ultraviolet light as well as red and near infrared light. Plants actually thrive under such a lighting regime. However, what would Saturn itself look like within the plasmosphere. Would it glow much like an incandescent lightbulb--the way cool red dwarfs look like in space? In essence, would saturn look like a large incandescent bulb in the sky, surrounded by a bright purple glow? The Bible in Chapter 1 mentioned that God put a greater light and a lesser light for the Earth. Many people would say the greater light was the sun and the lesser light was the moon. On the surface that sounds right, but there are times when the moon is seen only in the daytime or not at all (new moon.) Now would our present sun have been the lesser light, or would the plasmasphere have been the lesser light (at night) and Saturn the greater light? As I have mentioned, many LED growing lights are purplish in color and have similar spectra to the plasmasphere of Saturn when it was in glow mode, so plants should have been able to photosynthesize even at night (or trailing end of Earth if it were tidal locked).
CTJG 1986
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
CTJG 1986 wrote: As an added note on all this from the past 2 posts it's important to note that Christ/Venus died 'for our sins', was entombed behind a Rock(Mars) and then rose again 3 days later.
She died as Christ, she rose as Lucifer(Lucy Love). With Satan/Mars/The Prince of Darkness at her side(I think, still not sure as some references to the darkness and Satan seem to refer to Venus as well).
As per various occult literature as Satan rose against the Devil/The Holy Father/Saturn he became wounded and could go no further so he thrust himself upon his own spear/sword.
As the the last breath left him a 'million angels'(Venus it would seem) rushed forward to his assistance to cast the Devil/Holy Father/Saturn into a thousand year prison of fire in the underworld/Hell. (Hence 'suicide' is evil)
This story may be more familiar to users here by the Greek version in which the Tyrannical God King Kronos who re-imprisoned the other Gods(Mars and Venus/Zeus and Athena) is overthrown by Zeus and Athena and cast into the underworld/Tartarus after the 'Battle of the Titans'.
God prison sucks... It's time for The Breakout... -
(note the mountain-top monument in the background - 'twin towers' with the 5 pointed star(Venus) suspended between them.)
Jesus H Christ that's a wonderful looking monument.
Cheers, Jonny
Hmm, somehow I managed to delete a paragraph from that post explaining the video reference I posted, haha.
The 'twin towers' monument with the 5 pointed star between them for the Christians (or simply theologically enlightened) amongst us may bring to mind a rather powerful Biblical story.
Samson, Eyes gouged out by swords and hair regrown, asks to lean against the pillars of the Temple and is endowed by God once more with super-human strength and brings down the pillars of the Philistine temple by standing between them and either pulling them together or pushing them apart, bringing the temple crashing down upon him and the Philistines.
There are some interesting tie-ins to some modern events there too, but that's better suited for the "Paradigm Shift or Just Catastrophe" thread in NIAMI, or a different website altogether.
Cheers, Jonny
Lloyd
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
Xu... said: However, what would Saturn itself look like within the plasmosphere. Would it glow much like an incandescent lightbulb--the way cool red dwarfs look like in space? In essence, would saturn look like a large incandescent bulb in the sky, surrounded by a bright purple glow? The Bible in Chapter 1 mentioned that God put a greater light and a lesser light for the Earth.
* In my Cardona Interview thread last year Cardona said that before Saturn entered the Solar System about 10,000 years ago, Saturn was described as being very dim most of the time, like a flow worm. It also would periodically flare catastrophically and be extremely bright for a short period of time, I suppose less than a day. * After Saturn's last flare upon entering the Solar System, it became increasingly bright. He said the Sun was also seen for the first time after the flare, so I suppose Saturn was the first light and the Sun was the other one. Venus also appeared on the face of Saturn after the flare about the same time that the Sun first appeared. But the ancients thought Venus was part of Saturn, probably for thousands of years, until Venus finally became unstable, like Mars, and started moving closer to Earth and away from the plasma column to some extent, I guess. * I think Saturn initially looked reddish, like Mars, which made Mars invisible for a long time. As the Saturn System spiraled in toward the Sun for thousands of years, it became increasingly bright mostly from reflecting Sunlight. Since it was so close to Earth, it was way more noticeable and impressive to humans. It filled a large part of the sky. The colors changed somewhat over time. It was even said to be green at one time, maybe before it began to appear more yellowish. * While Venus still appeared to be part of Saturn, it made an 8-sided star figure on the face of Saturn and sometimes a 16-sided star and other numbers. Something also made a swastika-like formation on Saturn at times, but I don't know if Venus was involved. Saturn also appeared to be a wheel, with 4 spokes, like a cross in a circle. And it had a crescent which rotated around Saturn. At one point, Venus appeared to be a comet that made a circular ring of smoke or plasma around Saturn, making Saturn look like a ball within a circle. * Cardona could explain all this much better, but he's fairly busy trying to write several more books on this subject before he gets too old. That's what he says. But he does answer questions to some extent.
hi. i've just watched part one of Symbols of an Alien Sky and it occurs to me that the planet described as venus could have been the planet that broke up to form the asteroid belt. either that or the belt could be another planet between venus and saturn breaking up in the intense EM discharge and hence appearing as venus' halo? thus we have an alignment giong:
earth-mars-venus-planet x-jupiter.
just a thought.
Xuxalina Rihhia
Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
It is said that brown dwarfs produce blue, violet, ultraviolet and x-ray light from their coronas, so would this along with the plasmasphere glow give a color much like this?
