Michael- Has anyone taken cores from the center of the Colorado River, do you know?
Lloyd- What's this about plasma paint? How does it work?
webolife
Re: Rock Strata Formation
On Kapriel's post above, I totally agree with you here.
Moses, you are right about the major events, as seen by the global distribution of layers such as the Precambrian-Cambrian boundary, Permian-Triassic, Cretaceous-Tertiary, and Pleistocene, each signalling massive extinctions, not of progressively evolved forms but of vertically distributed habitats characterized by creatures with greater versatility or mobility... for clarity let it be understood that most of the other distinctions in the geologic column are artifacts of uniformitarian/phylogenetic thinking. But I disagree with your assumption that there must have been a long time period between events... as I said earlier, three, or I guess five major phases of a single catastrophic series, like a short essay: an introduction, 3 body paragraphs, and a conclusion. Various localities show other miniphases of these larger events. A synthesis/chronology of meteoric events based on known cratering around the world gives a good sense for the astronomical causative agents for these phases.
Lloyd, I am generally with you on the presence of electrical forces in the early phases of the erosional events. The comparison with Martian features is cogent. I don't fully accept any particular EDM scenario that has been presented on these forums, but my least favorite view currently [pun intended] is Sediment Mike, er Starbiter's scenario... but keep those posts coming, Michael, we'll work through this in time I am non-plussed by the alleged lack of deposits from the erosion of the GC... there are deposits all over Utah that could be these products; plus, this mostly preceded the uplift of the mountain ranges, which transformed the topography you might have expected from a simple flood-deposit-erosion-deposit sequence... stepping back from the whole picture, there is a whole lot more deposition than erosion in the SW US, GC notwithstanding.
starbiter
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Hello Kapriel: From what i understand the bottom of the Colorado is full of boulders to some depth, not bed rock. I'll see if i can confirm this. That's what they said at the park. Because of reduced water flow and lack of flooding the river silts up today. Occasionally they release more water to simulate a flood. The sand is stirred up and deposited along the sides of the river creating new beaches. When the water recedes, the beach stays behind.Much of the other sand is washed down stream. The boulders are less likely to be effected. They laugh at the flood.
michael
webolife
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Starbiter, you are right about the boulders and beaches, the result of mass-movements and flooding. But let's not confuse the changeable depositional materials due to seismic, weather and river action with the identification of base materials in the stratification sequence of the canyon [walls].
starbiter
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Hola Webo: The canyon walls are my friends. When i realized that sandstone is either sand dune or beach [usually dunes] everything changed for me. Mud Stone, Silt Stone, and Limestone are underwater layers. Dolomite is considered converted Limestone, but i have my doubts. Same with unfossiliferous Limestone and Marble. All the ingredients for Dolomite and Limestone are available in comet comas. If there are no fossils, i think this points to a comet source. I see the duning process being interrupted by periodic flooding, caused by the Sun changing it's movements, and the resulting sloshing. The sloshing would be a tidal wave full of silt. The silt layers could be rapid, not eons. The descriptions in WiC would produce what we see very quickly. I'll re post the layers link below.
The top layer gave me the most trouble, but the tidal wave video shows how much sediment would be carried by the wave. This sediment would be full of shells and skeletons from the bottom of the sea. And because it was liquid deposition, it filled in the area causing the top of the mountain to be flat, not duned. I went to sleep many nights trying to get my arms around this. The fog is slowly lifting.
unfossiliferous michael
webolife
Re: Rock Strata Formation
With regard to your comment: "The boulders are less likely to be effected. They laugh at the flood." This is not necessarily so, flood waters + gravity can lift and push tons of megatons of boulders downstream in a very rapid mass movement, referred to as a debris flow.
starbiter
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Hola Webo: I was referring to the artificial floods caused by releasing extra water from the dam.
The fact that the boulders are still in the canyon means they have been pretty resistant to flooding up till now. There must have been a couple of good floods since the boulders found their way there. Maybe even a biblical flood. When i go back i'll listen to see if they're laughing.
michael
Lloyd
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Kapriel said: What's this about plasma paint? How does it work?
* That's in regard to my statement that sediments can be deposited over broad surfaces by electrical deposition similar to factory plasma painting of cars. Looks like Electrostatic spray painting is what they call it. Here's what wiki says about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spray_painting
In electrostatic spray painting or powder coating, the atomized particles are made to be electrically charged, thereby repelling each other and spreading themselves evenly as they exit the spray nozzle. The object being painted is charged oppositely or grounded. The paint is then attracted to the object giving a more even coat than wet spray painting, and also increasing the percentage of paint that sticks to the object. This method also means that paint covers hard to reach areas. The whole is then baked to properly attach the paint: the powder turns into a type of plastic. Car body panels and bike frames are two examples where electrostatic spray painting is often used.
There are three main technologies for charging the fluid (liquid or powders):
* Direct charging: An electrode is immersed in the paint supply reservoir or in the paint supply conduit. * Tribo charging: This uses the friction of the fluid which is forced through the barrel of the paint gun. It rubs against the side of the barrel and builds up an electrostatic charge. * Post-atomization charging: The atomized fluid comes into contact with an electrostatic field dowstream of the outlet nozzle. The electrostatic field may be created by electrostatic induction or corona, or by one or more electrodes (electrode ring, mesh or grid).
Lloyd
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Michael said: i realized that sandstone is either sand dune or beach [usually dunes]
Mud Stone, Silt Stone, and Limestone are underwater layers. Dolomite is considered converted Limestone, but i have my doubts. Same with unfossiliferous Limestone and Marble. All the ingredients for Dolomite and Limestone are available in comet comas. If there are no fossils, i think this points to a comet source.
* Saying only sand dune or beach ignores the EDM process, like that on Mars, shown on previous page from http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/img/18/186109403~, in which the northern hemisphere of Mars appears to be considerably EDM eroded away and deposited on much of the southern hemisphere. Much of mud, silt and lime stone could also be from EDM. Fossils could be from plants and animals that were buried in the EDM deposits, like bugs on a surface that is spray painted. * Since planetoids are apparently charged bodies, comets would likely be pulverized in the upper atmosphere by EDM, if they were on collision courses with Earth. TPODs have suggested that meteors found on Earth may have formed from plasma melting and resolidification of Earth material hit by megalightning.
starbiter
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Hello Lloyd: Material removed from Earth or a comet by electrical excavation and then deposited during high winds would still be a dune. The diminished atmosphere of Mars is a wild card. But as you know Mars is covered with dunes.
In Earth in Upheaval [EiU], chapter 2, The Aquatic Graveyards, Velikovsky describes an area of Northern Scotland. There are red sandstone formations in the shape of dunes.
Inside of the dunes are legions of fish. They seem to have died a horrible death from the position at death. There was no predation present. No scavengers present. In some instances, in similar locations the color of skin is preserved. So while the dunes formed over thousands of square miles fish rained down from the sky, during the formation of the dune. To preserve the skin color requires rapid removal of oxygen. And then something had to convert the whole formation to stone.
Tornadoes have been known to cause fish to fall from the sky. During the catastrophes of WiC, tornadoes beyond anything known today would have swept the Earth. There are formations like this around the world. The sand that makes up these formations is not fossiliferous, but the formation contains whole fossils. It's sort of kind of unfossiliferous. The biblical hurricane and tidal waves could add to all this. The electrical excavation going on could also lift and effect unprotected creatures.
There is evidence like this covering the planet. EiU is a great read. The surface of our planet is strewn with strange evidence of violent events, best explained by myth and EU. The intersection of myth and EU, if you like.
michael
webolife
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Lloyd, your electrostatic painting sounds similar to the process used in electron microphotography, eh?
Julian Braggins
Re: Rock Strata Formation
This may or not be relevant to the timescale of cementation of some sediments. My property has several old dams built in gold mining times in the 1850's, and by their layering were the result of sluicing effluent used to form them. In some parts they are cemented so firmly that they defy pick or electric jackhammer, appear as iron/ alumina rich conglomerate but where there are more gossen/silt fines they are workable. The hard sections were just as solid thirty years ago so it obviously doesn't take long in geological time for cementation to take place with no pressure or high temperature needed. There is obviously no lime used, anyway it is harder than any lime concrete I have come across and cement was not available here at that time. Thought it might be interesting! This area is inside the wall of an ancient volcano, blue diorite being the local bedrock by the way.
starbiter
Re: Rock Strata Formation
Hello Julian: Below is a photograph of dunes in Arches NP with the explanation for dune turning to rock. The message is consistent. It requires miles of dirt stacked on top of the dune to heat, squeeze, and leach into the dune, converting it to rock. This is the message at visitor centers, and Bureau of Land Management offices where i seek out the geologists. I think they realize the problem with this reversal of accumulation. They would prefer water being able to explain the process. The depth mentioned varies from 2 or 3 miles, up to 5 miles.
The next time i travel to the park i'll mention your sluiced out material that turned to rock and see what they have to say, the lying scum. Just kidding about the scum.
starbiter
Re: Rock Strata Formation
This next formation is right down the road from the sign. The top is dune. The more easily eroded area under the dune is underwater sediment. The whole thing has almost been removed by erosion. They claim the top part, the sand dune is almost impervious to erosion. But something has eroded it. And if your a catastrophist, the time available is limited. The question is, was the erosion caused by little pieces of sand bumping into it, or did something wicked this way come?
I am non-plussed by the alleged lack of deposits from the erosion of the GC... there are deposits all over Utah that could be these products; plus, this mostly preceded the uplift of the mountain ranges, which transformed the topography you might have expected from a simple flood-deposit-erosion-deposit sequence... stepping back from the whole picture, there is a whole lot more deposition than erosion in the SW US, GC notwithstanding.
