I appreciate your review & summary of the thread. I suggest reviewing and/or reading the whole thread (yes, it's a long thread) is the best way to assess the conclusion that petroleum is abiotic. The thread builds a body of facts & evidence which support the abiotic conclusion.
Regarding coal, it's an ancillary conclusion and not necessary to the overall conclusion (although, I'm still persuaded that coal is also abiotic). Economic deposits of coal are not being formed at present and I hope never are in the course of future human civilization on Earth because, likely, that would be the end of civilization as we know it (Earth was a very unhospitable place during coal formation epochs).
Of note:
One must be careful when considering transmutation of elements. While I previously acknowledged transmutation of elements in this thread, it should not be used as a "magic wand" to facilitate every geological and chemical process. Hydrogen is not a product of transmutation, rather, it's the initial building block as hydrogen is a single proton (it's a question beyond the scope of this thread to consider whether protons can be formed from the ether). Transmutation as a geological process must be scientifically constrained in its application.
The same can be said about electromagnetic processes in general, while electrical processes are undoubtedly present and active in Earth's geological structure & processes (including facilitating hydrocarbon formation at depth), it's application must be carefully applied to individual geological processes and, again, not used as a "magic wand" to facilitate one geologic process or another.
The above being said, I'd like to, again, focus on the deep geologic structures of the planet, and those structure's relationship to abiotic oil formation and its plentiful abundance:
As previously discussed & linked, and reviewed by Lloyd: "Earth is encircled by subtle necklaces of interconnecting, generally latitude-parallel faults and electrical dynamics pushes minerals and oil up through these cracks".
A presentation to the Houston Geological Society (oil & gas geology) by Stanley B. Keith:
Cracks of the World: Global Strike-Slip Fault Systems and Giant Resource Accumulations
Evidence is mounting that the Earth is encircled by subtle necklaces of interconnecting, generally latitude-parallel faults. Many major mineral and energy resource accumulations are located within or near the deeply penetrating fractures of these "cracks of the world." Future exploration for large petroleum occurrences should emphasize the definition, regional distribution, and specific characteristics of the global crack system. Specific drill targets can be predicted by understanding the local structural setting and fluid flow pathways in lateral, as well as vertical conduits, detectable through patterns in the local geochemistry and geophysics.
At a more local scale, introduction of magma and hydrothermal fluids into the global "crack system" commonly is coincident with kinematic activity in the faults. Indeed, analysis of mineral and chemical fractionation patterns produced during sequential introductions of the hot fluids offers new tools for kinematic and dynamic analysis of the global-scale fracture system. Particularly important are lateral compositional patterns in the mineral zone artifacts of hydrothermal plumes. These lateral patterns reflect motion related to the strike-slip kinematics and inject a new laterality and conceptual opportunity into exploration for commodities deposited by the ascending hydrothermal plumes. The global scale and interconnected nature of the strike-slip fault system in both continental and oceanic crustal materials first became apparent from a regional geotectonic study of Mexico.
The following is a PDF file of the proceeding presentation and it has several schematic renderings of the "crack system" as it relates to North America and the Western Hemisphere (provides a valuble visual look down map on the "cracks"):
The following is a peer-reviewed scientific paper, by J. Kutina:
Laboratory of Global Tectonics and Metallogeny, Department of Chemistry, The American University, Washington, D.C. 20016, U.S.A.
The paper echoes and is consistent with the above Stanley Keith presentation:
Global tectonics and metallogeny: Deep roots of some ore-controlling fracture zones. A possible relation to small-scale convective cells at the base of the lithosphere?
Abstract Criteria suggest that some of the ore-controlling fracture zones have deep roots, some extending into the upper mantle. The question is analyzed of whether a pattern of deep-seated fracture zones, extending to the base of a continental lithosphere, may be related to, or interact with, the small-scale convective cells (rolls) which originate [1,2] in the mantle beneath a moving lithospheric plate.
The analysis follows a previous application of the same concept by others [3,4] who explained the origin of a chain of volcanoes by the movement of an oceanic lithospheric plate over a pattern of small-scale convective cells of the underlying mantle.
The Canadian Shield is used to discuss the above question. A correlation has been found between: (1) the direction of two sets of long wavelength gravity anomalies detected by Stephenson and Beaumont, [8] in a study of the isostatic response of the Canadian Shield, and (2) the pattern of N-S and E-W trending trajectories of ore-controlling fracture zones, postulated by the author [5,6] in the southern part of the Canadian Shield. The Hudson Bay Paleolineament [7] correlates very well with the N-S set of gravity anomalies.
The above correlation suggests that the ore-controlling lineaments and the long wavelength anomalies of the Canadian Shield are related. If the gravity anomalies reflect, as Stephenson and Beaumont [8] tentatively suggest, a pattern of convective cells beneath the base of the lithosphere, then the volcanic activity and metallogenesis may be related to the boundaries and corners of the cells. The author suggests that the convective cells could, in this case, originate by melting of the mantle material proceeding preferentially along the intersecting deep-seated fracture zones.
The pattern of deep-seated fracture zones, compiled for the western United States [9] also shows a relationship of major ore deposits and ore clusters to the corners of rectangular blocks, defined by mutual intersection of the E-W and N-S fracture zones. In this case, the size of the blocks, measured in an E-W direction, is about 530 km, and in a N-S direction about 600 km. These figures are significantly close to the distance from the seismic discontinuity at a depth of 650 km, which is considered by others [2,4] as the lower boundary of the small-scale convection.
The presentation & scientific paper both refer to an intersecting lattice work of faults which reach deep into the crust and possibly into the shallow mantle. The Kutina paper "shows a relationship of major ore deposits and ore clusters to the corners of rectangular blocks, defined by mutual intersection of the E-W and N-S fracture zones."
Another peer-reviewed scientific paper by Arthur A. Meyerhoff is also consistent with the above two scientific discussions:
Surge-tectonic evolution of southeastern Asia: a geohydrodynamics approach
Abstract The repeated need for ad hoc modifications in plate-tectonic models to explain the evolution of southeastern Asia reveals their inability to fully explain the complex features and dynamics of this region. As one example, the hypothesis does not provide a mechanism to explain the 180° turns and twists along the strike of several foldbelts and island arcs in the region (e.g. Banda arc). Convection-cell configuration renders such 180° contortions and Rayleigh-Bénard-type convection impossible. However, during the last 10 years, new data bearing on the convection-cell problem have become available in the form of seismotomographic images of the earth's interior. These images show that (i) mantle diapirs as proposed by traditional plate-tectonic models do not exist; (ii) there is no discernible pattern of upper or lower mantle convection, and thus no longer an adequate mechanism to move plates; and (iii) the lithosphere above a depth of about 80 km is permeated by an interconnected network of low-velocity channels.
Seismic-reflection studies of the low-velocity channels discovered on the seismotomographic images reveal that these channels have walls with a 7.1–7.8 km s−1 P-wave velocity. Commonly, the interiors of the channels are acoustically transparent, with much slower P-wave velocities, in places as low as 5.4 km s−1. The author and co-workers have interpreted the low velocities as evidence for the presence of partial melt in the channels, and they postulated that this melt moves preferentially eastward as a result of the earth's rotation. They named these channels "surge channels" and their new hypothesis for earth dynamics "surge tectonics".
Surge channels underlie every type of tectonic belt, which includes mid-ocean ridges, aseismic ridges, continental rifts, strike-slip fracture zones, and foldbelts. In southeastern Asia, surge channels—mainly foldbelts—lie between all platform and cratonic massifs. These massifs, platforms, and tectonics belts—the surge channels—form an anastomosing E-W pattern southern Asiatic Russia, Mongolia, western China, the Qinghai-Tibetan region, and northern India and Pakistan. Such an anastomosing pattern indicates that flow is an active process in the surge channels.
Surface studies of phenomena that might be associated with the surge channels soon revealed that all active channels are characterized by higher-than-normal heat flow (> 55 mW m−2, thermal springs and elevated ground-water temperatures, volvanic phenomena, bands of microearthquakes, and linear belts of faults, fractures, and fissures. The latter are especially visible on satellite images. The bands of high heat flow, thermal springs, microearthquakes, and faults-fractures-fissures almost exactly coincide. The fault-fracture-fissure systems are interpreted to be streamlines caused by flow in the surge channels—a consequence of Stokes's Law (an expression of Newton's Second Law of Motion)-and show that Poiseuille flow must dominate in the channels. Hence, the mechanism producing the belts of linear faults-fractures-fissures is viscous drag, produced by fluid motions.
The eastward flow of the magma in the channels is demonstrated clearly in the tectonic patterns of southeastern Asia. In the northern part of the region studied, the E-W striking anastomosing surge channels (tectonic belts) splay northeastward into the coastal regions of Russia. In the south, they splay southward and southeastward through the Malay Peninsula and Indonesia. The open horsetail structures thus created prove that flow is W-E. The presence of the two splay directions, NE and S-SE, indicates in addition that a barrier to eastward flow must lie directly east of Asia. In this author's opinion, this barrier is the existing Benioff zone, because the same NE and S-SE splay patterns are present on each of the paleotectonic maps that have been prepared for nine time intervals from the beginning of Sinian (latest Proterozoic) time to the present.
The presence of the W-E flow patterns through 850 Ma of geological time, patterns that remain essentially unchanged, means simply that tectonic explanations of Asian geology need revision. The patterns that have been mapped indicate that W-E flow across Asia has persisted essentially unchanged for 850 Ma. Surge tectonics is the only hypothesis yet proposed that explains these patterns and their persistence.
And finally this is also consistent with the "Enigma" geological formation which has been linked to previously, where the "Enigma" is a rectangular or diamond shape geological formation with petroleum concentrations in the corners which is similar to the Kutina paper which "shows a relationship of major ore deposits and ore clusters to the corners of rectangular blocks, defined by mutual intersection of the E-W and N-S fracture zones", and is similar to the "surge-tectonics" paper's discussion of lateral hydrothermal flow and the Keith presentation's hydrothermal lateral fluid flow.
(The following link has extraneous political material, but the schematic of the "Enigma" geologic formation is valuble to provide a visual image of the geology surrounding the petroleum deposits — scroll down webpage to see "Enigma" schematic.)
After reviewing the four links, it appears there is a consistent pattern of interconnected deep-seated fracture zones the world over with petroleum deposits concentrated above those fracture zones, specifically with larger oil deposits in the "corners" of the intersecting lattice network of faults where the petroleum rises vertically up through the geological column from deeper geological levels in the deep crust and shallow mantle where petroleum forms from constituent chemical elements.
Oil is a mineral.
Lloyd
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
Oil is a mineral.
* I read that minerals are solid crystals. * I'll try to get back to the transmutation issue etc later. * Since N2, nitrogen gas in the air, was proven by Kervran to transmute at about 600 degrees F, when welding or burning wood through a tin stove pipe etc, and N2 also transmutes at the upper atmosphere from ultraviolet light at low temperature, it's likely that other transmutations do occur in Earth's hotter regions. I'm pretty sure Kervran mentioned Hydrogen forming via transmutation also.
webolife
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
Excellent article on the Mexico megashear fault system. Yeah, "minerals" are defined as abiotic, solid, and crystaline. I think Anaconda simply meant "abiotic".
seasmith
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
Anaconda,
Some good reading there mate, thank you; tho the whole cracking discussion really begs the question of why the hydrocarbons remain where "trans-current faulting" borders crustal cratons, rather than mid-ocean geologies. After all, the deep oceanic trenches are often closer to the source...
~ Unless the stuff has pissed out over the eons and bequeathed the deep seas~
s
RealtyBasedWorldview
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
I've always found the biotic theory of oil origin to be unconvincing myself. Thanks for providing all this evidence to support this feeling!
On topic, didn't the Soviets dig a really, really deep hole in the Earth one time? Might they have been able to confirm abiotic origin at this depth, and then for some reason covered it up? There is still a lot we don't know about what was going on in Russia during that era...
Lloyd
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
I think they closed down the Kola hole digging operation in 94, after the fall of communism, because the rock they were digging into was too plastic to dig any farther. It was like taffy or something. I think gneiss is what they were encountering for the last few miles.
Interesting... I saw that secondary definition in the "Science Dictionary" section of the wiki... it contradicts all the other definitions and explanations I've seen for the last 40+ years that say coal is not a mineral. Looking into it further, it seems that coal is only considered a mineral "functionally" by the mining industry, and laws regarding the taxing of it. So I would stand by the better technical definition that coal and other hydrocarbons are not minerals. Also, I said earlier "abiotic" when I probably should have said "inorganic"... slight difference in meaning, with regard to minerals.
Aardwolf
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
webolife wrote: Interesting... I saw that secondary definition in the "Science Dictionary" section of the wiki... it contradicts all the other definitions and explanations I've seen for the last 40+ years that say coal is not a mineral. Looking into it further, it seems that coal is only considered a mineral "functionally" by the mining industry, and laws regarding the taxing of it. So I would stand by the better technical definition that coal and other hydrocarbons are not minerals. Also, I said earlier "abiotic" when I probably should have said "inorganic"... slight difference in meaning, with regard to minerals.
A natural material just needs to be inorganic and solid/crystaline to be a mineral. Coal is therefore a mineral if it is determined to be inorganic.
Lloyd
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
Aardwolf said: Coal is therefore a mineral if it is determined to be inorganic.
* I now have it on a high authority in mythology, Cardona, that he thinks coal is indeed abiotic. * See the post here: http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&am~. * I said to him recently: "One TB forum member thinks coal, esp. bituminous coal, was also formed abiotically. Do you agree or not?" * He replied: "Yes I do." * Where's Anaconda? I think he'd like to hear that. Dwardu also said previously that petroleum came from the sky from proto-Saturn's flare-ups, as well as that it forms in Earth's depths. I assume he means that coal formed from petroleum falling on vegetation. I'll have to ask him that. * Would anyone like to ask Dwardu any other related questions?
I think that blows the doubters away. microbial life in the gabbroic layer, just so happens to eat hydrocarbons.
to coin a phrase. lovin' it.
webolife
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
So Vic, that is the best, most comprehensive article on the subject that I've ever seen. That does it for me. It answers my questions, and pushes me over the abiotic line on deep crust hydrocarbons. I had been at the line with Thomas Gold's work for a few years now. Now, for a piece of abiotic coal........ I already have coal formed from biotic sources, but is it possible some other process may have formed it?????
Lloyd
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
Webo: I already have coal formed from biotic sources, but is it possible some other process may have formed it?????
* Since Cardona also agrees that the source of coal is abiotic, and since he says proto-Saturn [pS] rained down petroleum on Earth probably during the periodic pS flare-ups, I just asked him if coal formed when petroleum rained down upon vegetation. I'm awaiting the reply. * He says petroleum forms at depth within the Earth as well.
GaryN
Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?
Life discovered in deepest layer of Earth's crust. They have evolved to feed on abiotic oil.
He (Stephen Giovannoni of Oregon State University) added that the reactions that produce oil and gas abiotically inside the crust could occur in the mantle, meaning life may be thriving deeper yet.
It has been hypothesized that these hydrocarbons might originate abiotically from serpentinization reactions that are occurring deep in the Earth's crust, raising the possibility that the lithic microbial community reported here might utilize carbon sources produced independently of the surface biosphere.
Although some research has been carried out in the past, little is known about the location, formation, decomposition, or actual quantities of methane hydrates. However, national and international research and exploration over the last 20 years by various governmental and industrial entities have resulted in general agreement that methane hydrates should be evaluated as a potential primary energy source for the future. "Estimates on how much energy is stored in methane hydrates range from 350 years' supply to 3500 years' supply based on current energy consumption. That reflects both the potential as a resource and how little we really know about the resource," Langley says.
I think the Gulf blowout fiasco demonstrated the abundance of oil and gas coming up from the deep, and percolating into the ocean. The hydrates around the world, IMO, are evidence that much of the methane that accompanies oil is transformed into the hydrates, a fact that must be well known to scientists, but somehow is not officially recognised as being a 'renewable resource', but surely should be? Unless they consider it also to be a fossil fuel. http://www.ornl.gov/info/reporter/no16/methane.htm
I already have coal formed from biotic sources, but is it possible some other process may have formed it?????
