Stars form AT a z-pinch,but not IN a z-pinch. Specifically, when two filaments are drawn together during a z-pinch, that may trigger star formation in one or both filaments, not on the axis between the filaments. There seems to be some confusion on this point. (In the thread on CC's electric sun model, Charles is correct that z-pinches can't form stars directly)
First, http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/12 ... chapter-6/ from 6.12 , you can see that within a single filament, we can have ions and electrons spiraling in and "recombination of ions and electrons start to occur". We know of course, (just like in the "water bridge"),that ions are moving in one direction down the filament,electrons in the other. Sounds like a good start for star formation, if only we could bump up the magnetic force. That is where the other filament comes in: http://www.joyfirepublishing.com/images ... t_rope.png the magnetic forces from the filaments combined, ramp up the Marklund convection in each filament. To say recombination continues to occur is an understatement. Or if you just like pictures: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1447 ... _hires.jpg We have pictures like this, with twisted filaments, where the stars are IN the filaments, not anywhere along the central axis. Summing up, z-pinches are between filaments, star formation is in a filament
D_Archer
Re: star formation at z-pinch
No, the star forms in the Z-Pinch, Marklund convection concentrates matter at a single location, see the classic hourglass z-pinch as example, the star is in it. You are thinking of only a part of the total Z-Pinch, the Z-Pinch filaments, the star forms in the Z-Pinch current colum. The filaments are in dark-mode, no stars form there.
Regards, Daniel
celeste
Re: star formation at z-pinch
D_Archer wrote: No, the star forms in the Z-Pinch, Marklund convection concentrates matter at a single location, see the classic hourglass z-pinch as example, the star is in it. You are thinking of only a part of the total Z-Pinch, the Z-Pinch filaments, the star forms in the Z-Pinch current colum. The filaments are in dark-mode, no stars form there.
Regards, Daniel
Daniel, No, Marklund convection concentrates matter within a single filament, not between two filaments at z-pinch. The reason we have the appearance of so many binary pairs is that many times we will see a star in each filament. Where the mainstream sees a star tightly orbiting a black hole, it is because we have two filaments (which we don't see), spiraling around each other, but only have a star forming in one of the two filaments. The fact that we have a z-pinch is because two filaments are long range attractive, short range repulsive. Which was also Charles point about there not being enough constraining force there. On the other hand, within a single filament, Marklund convection works to constrain the positive charges flowing one way, and the negative charges flowing in the other direction. Now in the case of a stable current filament, it may be like the water bridge example, with negative charge flowing one way down the center, positive charge spiraling in layers (by ionization potential) around it. But bring in the magnetic field of another current filament (z-pinch), and we constrain the filament further. The problem is that the negative charge in the center of a filament, is not short range repulsive with the positive charge on the outside. The rapid onset of recombination IN one filament (star formation), is caused by the addition of the second filament's magnetic field, at z-pinch.
celeste
Re: star formation at z-pinch
Daniel, You are right that we see stars embedded in that "classic hourglass" shape. That is NOT the entire z-pinch. This is a mistake made by even some of the big guys here. There is no evidence of the two separate filaments here. We are seeing a constraining of one filament only. I guess what I'll have to find is scale here. Perhaps I can find dimensions of one of these hourglass figures, and compare it to dimensions like the Double Helix Nebula. Is the hourglass on the scale of a filament, or the pair of filaments in the Nebula.
celeste
Re: star formation at z-pinch
What I have not seen put together, is these two ideas: 1. That a single current filament has both charges flowing in opposite direction, in layers (due to Marklund convection) and 2. That two filaments tend to merge into one, when a third filament is present. (As explained in the Essential Guide to the EU found at this site's home)
What happens in the case where two filaments merge, but each has the structure we think it has?
- If filaments in space do not join all or many of the stars and galaxies into electric circuits, as Michael et al think, how do the filaments form? (I think Charles would say electric forces are not the main cause.) - Are planetary auroras caused by electric currents from the Sun? (I think he'd say yes.) - If so, what's the maximum distance such currents can extend? (I guess he might say to the heliopause.) - I think Steven Rado argued that protons can attract each other if they get within one de Broglie wavelength of each other (or some similar kind of wavelength). And Kanarev found that neutrons seem to make it possible for protons to come close together. He sees protons in atoms as being separated by the neutrons, as if the neutrons glue the protons together. He also found that electrons seem to move in strings of four, and double strings of four each side-by-side, apparently because they stick together weakly. - Is it possible that the z-pinch or similar event causes protons and electrons to combine into neutrons (since it's apparently been found that lightning on Earth produces 5,000 neutrons/m^3/s)? Didn't Charles state that z-pinches do compress plasma, but not into atoms? But if they produce neutrons, wouldn't those decay into hydrogen atoms? This paper says neutrons sometimes decay into hydrogen: http://www.physics.sc.edu/TPFNP/Talks/JBYRNE.pdf. They always decay into protons and electrons, so apparently some of the time the protons and electrons combine into hydrogen atoms. - I just wonder still if filaments in space might provide at least part of the conditions necessary for star formation.
Lloyd
Re: star formation at z-pinch
See Charles' Galaxies Article Charles just mentioned his article on Galaxies, that he updated. It seems to explain galaxy formation and evolution pretty well and it ends with an explanation of filaments too, which he says do involve EM forces, but also gravity and centrifugal forces etc, but especially explosion/implosion cycles. He says EM forces provide the tensile strength to keep galaxies and filaments from flying apart completely. His article is at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=5941.
He sticks with somewhat conventional views on the ages and distances of galaxies and doesn't include quasars as part of galactic evolution, but I suppose he'll correct that after studying the matter more thoroughly.
D_Archer
Re: star formation at z-pinch
celeste wrote: We are seeing a constraining of one filament only
The constraining is the pinch. I think CC is muddying the waters here. Where stars form, the current column, plasma column is a Z-Pinch (in EU <> stellar pinch)
Regards, Daniel
celeste
Re: star formation at z-pinch
D_Archer wrote:
celeste wrote: We are seeing a constraining of one filament only
The constraining is the pinch. I think CC is muddying the waters here. Where stars form, the current column, plasma column is a Z-Pinch (in EU <> stellar pinch)
Regards, Daniel
Daniel, Yes, the z-pinch does constraining. But look at 6.12 here: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/12 ... chapter-6/ The very words they use are "self-constriction of a current filament" due to Marklund convection. A z-pinch constrains two filaments, Marklund convection constrains a single current filament, but what is missing is when they are both together. In 6.12, they show B(r)? Should that not really be B=B(r)+B(R),where r is the distance to the center of the filament,but R is the distance to the other filament That is the magnetic field at any point is not just due to the one filament,but the other filament as well, as shown here: http://www.joyfirepublishing.com/images ... t_rope.png So a z-pinch can constrain two filaments, Marklund convection can constrain a single filament, but Marklund convection in a z-pinch can REALLY constrain a filament. If a filament contains both negative charge and positive charge, flowing in layers in opposite directions, can we constrain a filament to where the negative charge and positive charge no longer flow past each other, but into each other. Could that be star formation at z-pinch?
fatarsemonkey
Re: star formation at z-pinch
I'll start by saying I am a total newby at all this but I would like to ask if a star is formed within or between these z-pinch effects how do the materials flow to the point of its creation? does it work a bit like welding with a parent source of some kind and material added or does it convey them like a kind of giant vacuum cleaner to a single point? My point of question being what comes first the proverbial chicken or the egg?
celeste
Re: star formation at z-pinch
fatarsemonkey wrote: I'll start by saying I am a total newby at all this but I would like to ask if a star is formed within or between these z-pinch effects how do the materials flow to the point of its creation? does it work a bit like welding with a parent source of some kind and material added or does it convey them like a kind of giant vacuum cleaner to a single point? My point of question being what comes first the proverbial chicken or the egg?
I think that section 6.11 http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/12 ... chapter-6/ may be a good description of how a star may form in one filament. That would be a good start. The easiest way to get any pinch in one filament (in my opinion), is to bring in another filament. Bring it in close to the first filament, but at an angle, so its magnetic is misaligned with that of the other filament. Of course, that is a description of a z-pinch between filaments. So (in my opinion) stars most likely form in the pinch in one filament, caused by the Z-pinch between two filaments. But now I'm just making it more complicated. Check out 6.11, I think that may answer your question.
D_Archer
Re: star formation at z-pinch
Hi Celeste,
Did you check the links Lloyd provided in another thread? With Wal explaining things at the conference. Also the new Nessie nebula, with the stars forming in one filament like beads on a string... this second filament stuff is indeed confusing.
Wal did speak about brown darfs around the pinch, maybe they form or get trapped between the filaments.... dunno really, Wal was very brief at that point.
Regards, Daniel
Frederic Jueneman
Re: star formation at z-pinch
Shouldn't we be also looking at the Bennett theta-pinch for star formation? There are several forms of the Bennett pinch, of which the z-pinch is the electromagnetic mirror image of the theta-pinch. There seems to be some confusion about this, and it would be of benefit if someone more knowledgeable could ferret out the details.
celeste
Re: star formation at z-pinch
Frederic Jueneman wrote: Shouldn't we be also looking at the Bennett theta-pinch for star formation? There are several forms of the Bennett pinch, of which the z-pinch is the electromagnetic mirror image of the theta-pinch. There seems to be some confusion about this, and it would be of benefit if someone more knowledgeable could ferret out the details.
We've seen these pictures of figures that look like plasma discharges: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TITjUD1d-_E/U ... terman.jpg Star formation at theta pinch would be in the plasma torus (in the sweat under the arms of our stick man). Star formation at z-pinch, would be along the current axis (between the legs of our stick man). So where does star formation occur? According to this story: http://www.viking-mythology.com/theCreation.html , it is both. Pardon this little digression into mythology, but we will see that the order of events in this story is compelling, once we understand the EU picture they are describing. First let's translate the first few paragraphs of the story. We have this gap (Ginnungagap), across which we begin to have arcing (sparks into Ginnungagap). A full blown plasma discharge forms (humanoid creature). We have theta pinch production first (sweat under his arms grew into two giants). Next, we have z-pinch production of one more giant (a son produced from the legs coming together). The point clear is that the z-pinch star comes after the formation of the theta pinch pair (it is their son). In the next post, I'll show why this must be so.
seasmith
Re: star formation at z-pinch
High mass X-ray binaries trace the Milky Way's spiral arms ESA
04 Mar 2013 "By using this novel technique, we were able to find a strong correlation between the positions of HMXBs and star-forming complexes in the Milky Way," said Alexis Coleiro, a PhD student at Université Paris Diderot, France, and lead author of the paper in the Astrophysical Journal.
Their statistical study showed that HMXBs are clustered with star formation complexes - the largest regions of star creation in galaxies. These clusters are typically 1000 light years across, with an average distance between the clusters of about 5000 light years.
The separation of the HMXBs and the complexes where they formed is largely due to the momentum supplied when the more massive star in the binary exploded as a supernova. Since such explosions tend to be asymmetrical, the dying star receives a kick in a particular direction. As long as the supernova's initial velocity is not too high, the binary stars are held together by their mutual gravitational attraction.
