In the American Museum of Natural History in New York is the Arthur Ross Hall of Meteorites, the feature attraction is the Ahnighito Meteorite, which is a 34 ton chunk of iron. It is part of a larger meteorite, the Cape York Meteorite which is estimated to have been around 200 tons and broke up in the atmosphere. Seven pieces (including the Ahnighito) of the Cape York are known, three are on exhibit at the AMNH. It was found by arctic explorer Robert Peary in the 1890's, and transported to the AMNH. http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permane ... ighito.php http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permane ... peyork.php
Three other Cape York fragments have been found in Greenland and one in Canada. No crater associated with any of the Cape York fragments—including the largest one, Ahnighito—has ever been located. Some scientists speculate that Cape York fell when this area of Greenland was blanketed by a thick sheet of snow and ice.
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Is this another ad hoc explanation for something (lack of a crater) that doesn't fit the standard paradigm?
Also of interest, the official statement is that:
It landed in Greenland thousands of years ago, before any people lived there.
This despite the fact that:
[...]native Greenlanders recounted a story that these meteorites were once a sewing woman and her dog who were cast from heaven by an evil spirit.
How did the native Greenlanders know it fell from the sky? Another ad hoc explanation:
Some people have speculated that this story may have been invented for Peary's benefit.
Nick
Steve Smith
Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?
There's another possibility. The big chunks of iron and nickel that they find scattered around might be fall-back ejecta from Earth and not incoming space wanderers. One theoretical notion about the asteroids and comets, in general, is that they aren't pieces of an exploded planet, but are pieces of Earth, Mars and Venus that were lifted into near-space by the catastrophes of 5000 (or so) years ago.
BTW, wasn't that big iron rock found laying out in the desert with no impact site? I wonder how objects moving at 60,000 kph "float" down to the ground?
Vek
Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?
Largest melt from lightning strike - largest known fulgurite found in Michigan
Largest melt from lightning strike
A few years ago, two boys discovered the world's largest known fulgurite — a tube-shaped glob of glass that had formed when lightning struck the ground. two researchers determined that the Winans Lake fulgurite is one of the most chemically reduced (deoxidized) natural materials known. Moreover, they believe their findings adds a new wrinkle to studies of another ultrahigh-temperature, ultrafast event: the proposed impact of a meteorite or comet on the earth, which may have been responsible for mass extinctions of earth life 65 million years ago. the researchers write that their observations "broaden considerably the range of models that should be considered in investigating the origin and implications of the observed iridium anomalies." On the basis of their fulgurite studies, Essene and Fisher suggest that much more of the iridium may have come from the earth than is commonly supposed. The researchers found that the Winans Lake fulgurite has enriched in gold; presumably, the metallic melts that were formed by the lightning scavenged the gold from surrounding soils. If highly reduced metallic melts are also formed during impact events, says Essene, then they might collect and concentrate iridium in the same way. The result would be that iridium levels in the impact melts would be much higher than what is normally found on the earth.
Essene and Fisher suggest that much more of the iridium [in the KT boundary, I think] may have come from the earth than is commonly supposed. ... lightning scavenged the gold from surrounding soils. ... impact events ... might collect and concentrate iridium in the same way.
- That's pretty ironic, comparing an impact event's effects to lightning effects, when we insiders realize so-called impact events are really mega-lightning events. Scavenging stuff from surroundings is how Marklund convection is described, that being a term for electrical discharge on a large scale, as detailed at Ian Tressman's Plasma Cosmology online encyclopedia site, I think. - Anyway, I still think the iridium may come from transmutation, instead of being scavenged from surroundings. I mentioned before that bacteria have been accused of mixing iridium into rock layers above and below the KT boundary. Bacteria can transmute some elements, so perhaps they do iridium as well. Also, powerful discharges commonly transmute elements on surfaces of stars, so maybe they do so somewhat on the surfaces of planets as well. - Normal transmutation can occur from lead to gold and iridium etc and lead is fairly common. But a route from silicon or iron to iridium may be more likely.
Lloyd
Steve said:
The big chunks of iron and nickel that they find scattered around might be fall-back ejecta from Earth and not incoming space wanderers.
- That's interesting, that meteorites may be mostly Earth ejecta. Are you suggesting that lightning scavenges iron, nickel and chondrite elements from the surrounding Earth material, or that the electrical forces transmute these elements, or both? - I'm curious if there's a way to see if objects like meteors moving at 15 or 20 thousand miles per hour would make fireballs in neutral air the way they do in the Earth's electrified atmosphere. Is there any way to shoot a rock, or marble, or beebee at such a high speed in neutral air at Earth's surface?
StefanR
Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?
Summary for Part C Studies in cosmic chemistry and petrology presented in this Annual Report include (1) geological distribution and physical and chemical properties of tektites, (2) investigations of microanalytical techniques for analyzing milligram and sub-milligram quantities of tektites, meteorites and, eventually, returned lunar samples, and (3) petrology and chemistry of meteorites e
At the last of these links there is a picture which seems a bit suspicious. I've never seen this feature at the official site for tunguska. Is this from there or somewhere else?
As i read these articles i still wonder why certain details don't expand the discussion here and elsewhere (I).
The 3D image at this link does not look anything link the one in the other article.
Some details still strike me as highly inconsistent with what i'd expect from a bolide, even if it was destroyed by an electric discharge. Here is one of those items.
"The fireball was so great that a day later, Londoners could read their newspapers under the night sky"
I cannot overlook one detail, that at the time of this event earth and Venus were entering into alignment. Everyone here seems to agree that interactions occurred, in the past, between Venus' tail and earth. Why is an interaction so unlikely under a condition of intensified solar activity. The timing of Tunguska would have been not too far off from solar max, since solar minimum was around 1900 when Birkeland's auroral expeditionation was planned, "Birkeland knew that 1900 was at the least active part on the sun's cycle".
Another detail that i cannot overlook is the experimentation with electricity that was occurring in that timeframe. The possibility of triggering some sort of unexpected reaction doesn't exceed my limits of probability. Until someone explains in detail why this could not be possible, I cannot overlook the coincidental timing of this either. d....z
dahlenaz wrote: ...At the last of these links there is a picture which seems a bit suspicious. I've never seen this feature at the official site for tunguska. Is this from there or somewhere else?
As i read these articles i still wonder why certain details don't expand the discussion here and elsewhere...
The pic in that article is some crater pic from the archives to make it more "catchy". Expect more stories about meteroids in the next time. After all it was Wernher v.Braun who blew the whistle about a "campaign" after those "War on Drugs", "War on Terror", ..."War on hemrhoids"? It would be for the purpose of making it possible to militarize space, officially...
As the "War on ´error" is running out of it´s hypocritic fuel - the next howler is ready for another round of shocking and awing our lovely blue marble: "War on Asteroids"...
Last week ther was a big article in Science Mag. about an impact at Chesapeake Bay from some 35 mil. years ago.
Then there was this Mars "simulation" about an impact, and see that Germany (DLR) wants to launch a satellite especially for monitoring Near Earth Objects.
FS3
BullSchmutz
Re: Tunguska, Ongoing Mystery
I wonder how the planets were aligned on that particular day Tunguska occured...
dahlenaz
Re: Tunguska, Ongoing Mystery
BullSchmutz on Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:17 am
I wonder how the planets were aligned on that particular day Tunguska occured...
Here is the link I used to get the information on where Venus was.
As for the rest of the planets, that is not as much of a focus as is Venus, because of its tail.
The event occurred in the morning so that adds an element of abstraction to this proposal considering that venus would be approaching from the PM side of earths rotation and the explosion happened 180 deg. off from there,, But,, recent measurments from the four sattelites that are measuring the tail region of earth's plasma sphere have measured some activity that comes back at the earth from the downwind side. d...z
dahlenaz wrote: ...At the last of these links there is a picture which seems a bit suspicious. I've never seen this feature at the official site for tunguska. Is this from there or somewhere else?
As i read these articles i still wonder why certain details don't expand the discussion here and elsewhere...
The pic in that article is some crater pic from the archives to make it more "catchy". Expect more stories about meteroids in the next time. After all it was Wernher v.Braun who blew the whistle about a "campaign" after those "War on Drugs", "War on Terror", ..."War on hemrhoids"? It would be for the purpose of making it possible to militarize space, officially...
As the "War on ´error" is running out of it´s hypocritic fuel - the next howler is ready for another round of shocking and awing our lovely blue marble: "War on Asteroids"...
Last week ther was a big article in Science Mag. about an impact at Chesapeake Bay from some 35 mil. years ago.
Then there was this Mars "simulation" about an impact, and see that Germany (DLR) wants to launch a satellite especially for monitoring Near Earth Objects.
FS3
I also have been noticing how frequently stories about asteroids, NEOs etc have been appearing lately. Even as little as 5 years ago any scientist appearing in the media and commenting upon the likelihood of e.g. asteroid strikes would give you better odds of winning the lottery two weeks in succession. But nowadays it seems hardly a week goes by without some piece of multi-million dollar hardware being launched or at least announced. They might have left it a bit late for 2012.
tholden
Re: Tunguska, Ongoing Mystery
If you've never seen what hyper velocities can do.....
I once saw (at Aberdeen) a piece of foot-thick tank armor which had been hit by one of the long-rod hyper-velocity penetrators used in anti-armor shells, and the angle of impact was was such that you'd figure the thing couldn't possibly do anything other than glance off; it went through it like a knife straight through butter.
You get ANYTHING impacting the Earth's surface at ten or twenty thousand miles per hour, and all bets are off; nothing magical or exotic would be needed.
BullSchmutz
Re: Tunguska, Ongoing Mystery
Well according to that link above, it appears Mercury, Venus and Earth were nearly (but not exactly) in alignment with each other, but the sun was a bit off, at the exact time of the Tunguska event. It appears the 3 inner planets are just 5 degrees off from pointing at the sun. It didn't show a picture of the moon's position, but it appeared to be closer towards Venus and Mercury than on the other side, judging from the numbers. Thats just a guess though, I don't know exactly.
Do I have that correct?
dahlenaz
Re: Tunguska, Ongoing Mystery
BullSchmutz wrote: Well according to that link above, it appears Mercury, Venus and Earth were nearly (but not exactly) in alignment with each other, but the sun was a bit off, at the exact time of the Tunguska event. It appears the 3 inner planets are just 5 degrees off from pointing at the sun. It didn't show a picture of the moon's position, but it appeared to be closer towards Venus and Mercury than on the other side, judging from the numbers. Thats just a guess though, I don't know exactly.
Do I have that correct?
I think you have that right, and if i read the ephemeris correctly the moon may have been really close. I'm not really sure i'm reading them correctly. If so, such a unique orientation timed to such a mysterious event calls out for thorough consideration. You mentioned the five degrees off aspect, yet i wonder how much a Birkeland current can snake around the interplanetary environment. If we take into consideration the size of earth's plasma sphere, I'd suspect that reduces those degrees by quite a bit, maybe to the point of the initial contact for the day in question. Another detail to consider is, as you say, the moon, but more specifically, it seems to have just passed through new moon phase, and this period, from observation of weather events, can be quite active. This makes me wonder if the moon was carring some earthly connection that could act as a bridge to trigger an interaction as it was moved out while Venus moved in. I must emphasise that these are just the thought of the uneducated on the related matters of the electric universe. d...z
Wednesday, March 28, 2007 Tunguska Requires Paradigm Shift
Hundreds of scientific papers, lots of books, essays and stories have been written about the Tunguska meteorite. The Tunguska Event has been featured in documentary and feature films. It has become popular for the writers and journalists to mention it in their works.There is barely an adult in Russia who has not heard about THE EVENT at least once in his or her life. And yet, there does not exist a person in this whole world of ours who could spell it out with certainty and based on solid evidence: "I know what it was!" - Academician Nickolai V. Vassiliev is the leader of the Tunguska event Community.
Mr Vassiliev, I have your answer. You may require a bit of primer to understand it, but I have it.
Agreeably, the Tunguska event was caused by a bolide entering the earths atmosphere that morning of June 30th, 1908. That I think is understandable, comet or asteroid, it was something. What I think is being forgotten is that we have no direct witnesses to meteoric events on our planet. We see Meteor Crater, Arizona, and we see other evidence of past "impacts" but we do not have any direct witness to these events.
But we do have observational evidence of impacts that have not occurred on our planet. Often that evidence is dismissed or misunderstood because of it's confusing nature. It does things that cosmologists and astrophysicists do not understand, and as such the anomalous data is usually dismissed out of hand. This happens often, and the incidences of missed opportunity for understanding is dismissed with them. I will point out some of them.
Comet Beila broke up years before the Great Chicago Fire. During that it was noted that the comet's two pieces appeared to be connected by a luminous bridge by over 250,000 kms. (Other claims are showing that in later years it was over 2 million kms)
Comet Temple One was impacted by a copper projectile. The resulting explosion was supposed to be minimal, but at a distance of a few miles from the surface, there was an enormous explosion, then the impact.
Comet Shoemaker Levy slammed into the dark side of Jupiter. We still saw the light from earth. It was bright enough to have reflected off the clouds.
Bell Island, Newfoundland had an event in 1978 that looks like a smaller version of a Tunguska. Can these two events be compared?
That's some pretty odd events. In a universe of Gravity and gas laws that simply do not make sense. The comets should have not been connected, the impactor should have went "thud" and Shoemaker Levy should have disappeared into the clouds. What is going on?
What is being missed is the electrical fields and magnetic fields that bodies have. Just common sense and rubbing your hands through your hair on a cold day will show you the charge that can easily be built up.
Bolides hold a charge. They glow, as comets, when their orbits become elongated. The charge that a bolide carries is grounded to the electron voltage based on its distance from the sun. The sun itself, therefore, emanates an electric field that accelerates particles away from itself. This field is what causes the cometary displays we see. The comet's react to this field and as such they arc. Just like the "volcanoes" on Io.
Well, then, we see craters all over moons and planets and with this new knowledge we see that, the events we have seen in regards to comets can shed light on what might have caused these craters.
Tunguska was a bolide. This bolide approached earth and altered the night sky before the event, it's coma was larger than the distance between the earth and the moon but very dispersed. The rock itself, not large at all. It's electric field began to react with the magnetic field of the earth that night, the night before the impact. The rock began to enter the atmosphere and formed a visible coma which of course carried with it enormous charge. This would tear a path northward as it's "feelers" seeked the greatest source of potential difference. Which, without a doubt would be the caldera of an extinct volcano connecting directly to the Plasma Mantle of our planet.
Once this was located the discharge would begin. It would be in the form of an absolutely stupendous thunderbolt shooting down towards the ground from the bolide. The bolide would explode as all the electric potential is drained to the ground. The ground would be torn asunder in rippling waves and there should be flat bottomed craters. Which is indeed what Leonid Kulik said he saw, "10-50 foot holes several yards deep with flat bottoms". In fact it would likely jump to several nearby points aswell, nearer to the ground and so it would seem that there are several "explosions" based on the treefall.
Witness's said they saw a "Enormous Pillar of Fire" "Thunderclaps" and "An object glowing bluish white, too bright for the naked eye to look at". That's a 6 mile long electrical arc travelling towards to the ground as the bolide attempted to bleed off charge.
The patterns on the ground, the strange atmospheric glows, the witness reports and the physical destruction all match.
The herdsmen said it was Ogdy, a local deity who came down. There is obviously similarity to this and to what we think could be a deity. Electric effects have been shown to alter living tissues with their radiation. Here are some effects that can be explained with the electric model of comets, and of Tunguska itself:
+ Disturbances in the earths magnetic field. + Local Geomagnetic Storm + Reversal of soil Magnetism + An EMP + Aurora Displays before and after the event. + Genetic Mutations in plants and animals + Accelerated Growth of Plants + Radiation like Burns and deaths of animals. + Sphere's have been located of 'cosmic origin' in the area(NEW)
I hope this is a convincing argument for the Bolide theory. Of course, the Bolide from a new perspective, that of electrical comets and the plasma universe.
