* Webo, if you have time to make yourself useful, can you look through these images and find us a few that you think are glacially formed? https://www.google.com/search?q=striations&oe=utf-8&~ * If not, are there any other experts in the house who can do us the honor? * Also, Webo, or other expert, do you see any that might be electric wind or electrically formed? * Would the glacial striations tend to be almost perfectly parallel, while electric ones would be much less so? * Do you know of other natural causes of striations? I suppose water flow and sometimes winds would produce them too. Eh? * This site http://geology.about.com/od/geoprocesses/ig/slickensides/sl~ has an image at http://0.tqn.com/d/geology/1/0/x/b/1/slickisleroyale.jpg and the caption says:
Slickenside in Metabasalt, Isle Royale, Michigan Gallery of Slickensides or Fault Mirrors This exposure from Raspberry Island can be mistaken for glacial striations, but the orientation is wrong. The green color is suggestive of serpentine minerals.
Hope i can talk more...sorry, but i know only my own world...
Yeah, one thing what im been wondering, is that, how proof from iceage, is about round the world. Like we seen, rebound happens, when ground goes first to down. and it do it right now, but other reasons like iceage. for example danmark goes slowly under sea water, because finland and sweden rebound suck that landmass for themselves (thanx of lot, danish…and sorry) but if danmark can goes down without icemass, can subsidence happen only, beacause landmass under our feets are flowing somehow? It move like waves. and its very intresting, if you see places where now happens rebound, like Hudson bay, its round circle. Like north side Gulf of Botnia in Finland/sweden is round circle.
Ofcourse there are other proofs too. theres potholes, moraine hills, cliff scratch etc. and some "devils field" what we got lot in here. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/10666954 That's big fields what have only stone. So deep, plants don't grow in it. What im seen that's, all stones are same stonetype and even same size. Not possible at normal. Smaller stone is half smaller like bigger, and next size is again half smaller. I don't know what can make thatkind, but somekind resonance? you know, when glass breakdown if you sing at very high, all glasspieces are same size.
thank God, we have today Internet. Like we can watch potholes from Sahara desert, we can watch all other proofs round the world. This are stone scracth from South Africa. Peoples in there, doesn't know, what can make marks to rock, so they think, reason is iceage, because it is reason in northside. That's why peoples in there, this are marks from 4 million year ago (im sceptical that, because erosion dosnt necessity save it so long time) http://nieuwoudtvillecaravanpark.co.za/index/ and because iceage is been earth geological history all around, all accounts are "wizard circle" ao. circular argument. Excluding Australia, what is only ladarea where never been iceage. but what can make that scratch? Its like lasergun. millions laserguns.
Australia is one kind proof for huge stones. Normally when we see bizarre stones like this: http://koti.mbnet.fi/vesaiko/karnankivi_sivulta.htm we said, icemass did it, but australia also have samekind stones like devils marble ( I saw that stone this summer myself, and im pretty sure, peoples in megalithculture are done it).
what I try to explain? About that, when we normally say "it is iceage done" but when focus that stuff, see how problematicals they are. Ice age doesn't explain lot. Truth can be complicated.
I hope I don't speaks silly, but im seen that stones, what founded bottom one pothole. Stones was about over 10m deeps, flintstone what you cant found from Finland, there was also chalk, what iss bigger mystery, because you don't found it nearest like England Dover. I saw also bizarre stones, where left side was iron and right side at normal stone. Only explanation is, that bottom was been terrible heatness. Like hot fluid plasma been dropped from sky, and drilled that hole. Geologys says later, stones are from kambri-time at 200 million years old, but they didn't know, how they can be bottom pothole, whats age is only 20 000 – 12 000 year?
finno
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
and i put other message, what tells early humans in scandinavia. Oldest peoples in north are been at arctic sea, Norway Finnmark-area, and knowing komsa-culture. perhaps mostly doesn't know, but they are lived also much southern. In sweden lapponia under artcic circle, what means veiksel last period wasn't real. many botanists been saying same many generations, some plants and flowers have to be there all iceage time (we talk ofcourse latest veiksel-period).
This is same thing, what Dwardu Cardona talks when artic sea, groenland, siberia and alaska was without icecap. If that's true, like Cardona says, ofcourse then scandinavia was also without icecap.
Perhaps there was somekind plasmapillar, what flows to northpole and gives heatness to north ? its good explanation tells, how artcic sea have been melt. and after that, started electrical destruction and we think, hey, all this is are done iceage
Lloyd
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
* Cardona said the ice sheets never covered the north pole, just the area below the Arctic circle mainly, due to dust in the auroras preventing sunlight from warming up the surface. He said Saturn flares melted the ice sheets periodically, but, each time after melting, they gradually built up again. As the ice sheet built up, the ocean levels fell, so sea level went down over a mile deeper than it is now and people and animals were able to migrate and settle on land that is now under water. The flares also rained down sediments that became rock strata etc.
finno
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
Lloyd wrote: * Cardona said the ice sheets never covered the north pole, just the area below the Arctic circle mainly, due to dust in the auroras preventing sunlight from warming up the surface. He said Saturn flares melted the ice sheets periodically, but, each time after melting, they gradually built up again. As the ice sheet built up, the ocean levels fell, so sea level went down over a mile deeper than it is now and people and animals were able to migrate and settle on land that is now under water. The flares also rained down sediments that became rock strata etc.
I can sign that. There are few arctic plant, what lives in western Siberia and also in Canada. Biologist say, it is not possible, plants are been traveled from Beringia. So, how they can go from land to other if Beringia is out ? Couple russian seabiologist like N.A.Belov and V.N.Lapina has been to say, plants are gone over northpole. Because then sealevel was down, and Lomonosov ridge was on sealevel.
perhaps this is that mystical "mammoth island" whats knowing siberian culture. Myth says; mammoth bones are founded normally from beach of arctic sea, so north like ever, because mammoth tried go to "island of mammoths" (or lomonosov ridge), what drowned when sealevel get higher. That's why mammoth was all so north, when that animals drowned too – to megatsunam.
webolife
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
Lloyd, There are striations, and then there are striations!
Many of your posted images show what I would identify as glacial striations. Check out a time lapse video of glacial movement (such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89sOW-FzolIsorry I'm no good at linking) to see that while there is a generally unidirectional flow, there is an element of chaotic shifting that also occurs, depending on eg. terrain, ice depth, fracturing, etc.
The sandstone bedding planes are exposed through sandblasting wind erosion and have nothing to do with glaciation.
The banding patterns seen in various slates, schists and gneisses are also not from glaciation, rather arise from a combination of orogenic pressures, heating and recrystalization that characterize metamorphic process.
I did not see any images there that I would characterize as EDM, however, this debate is not over and I am open to further evidence to convince me
finno
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
webolife wrote: I did not see any images there that I would characterize as EDM, however, this debate is not over and I am open to further evidence to convince me
Perhaps i can say couple word? I know, nobody asked me anything, but still i talking and talking
I got to say, iceage-theory is best scientic theory what ever been done! and why? Because its still same – absolutly same – theory, how scottish geology Charles Lyell maked it some 1830-century. Nothing aint chance or abandoned, nothing intersted in that. For generations to generations, all same story without chances… all you can imagine, what kind science can do so good theory, nobody regonise it later. Of course this was sarcasm, no one is not reseach that for centurys, or ever. everybody only writing it again and again to schoolbooks. That is good reason, why got be sceptical to iceage.
but problems with stonescratch. Of course when looking videos from mountains, ice moving to down. Very simple. That's because ice melted from scandinavia after iceage, ice have to melting from south to north. So, ice moving to south ofcourse. In fact, north scandinavia is little bit higher than south, what proofs, ice really melted to south, and rolling to south. and same time when it rolling to south, it drawing to rock that scrathes, because there was littlestones between ice and rock. but now come to prize. When see that lines from map, in north scrathes go from south to north, accurately to north-east. middle finland that scrathes been rolling to east. That proofs, ice is melting from north to south, but also from west to east or even south to north. It doesn't any sense. Its chaos without explanation.
More problems: Here is one intresting youtube video, where you can see stone scrathes. That stone is very old, about 1.8 miljard year. Its easy to believe, because its in many stratums. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK6Ck3A4W8g Problem in that video is, iceage-theory says, after when scrathes are born, there been 3 long glacial time, when over 2 km thick ice been rolling over this all – without any marks. How its possible? Not are. My point is, are this marks really proof from glacial, or something else?
By the way, I know guy whos done that youtubevideo, and I can tell – he loves Electrical Universe –theory. He maked also other video, where he shows "plasma island" where huge electrical discharge are burned it. Before you watch it, finlands rocks aint be soft stone. Hope you all have fun with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TJbLTx ... ure=relmfu
GaryN
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
Thinking about, and looking into glacier mechanics, it seems it should not be possible for the striations, at the base anyway, to form.
Regelation occurs in glaciers. The mass of a glacier allows it to exert enough pressure to lower the melting point of the ice at its base, melting the ice and allowing the glacier to slide over the liquid. Under the right conditions, liquid water can flow from the base of a glacier.
So if there is a layer of water, and presumably softened ice above that, then no pressure could be applied to rocks at the base to make them leave grooves. If the ice was solid all the way down, how much pressure would it take on a rock or boulder to dig into the bedrock to leave a groove? And why would the rock not wear away, or be crushed to dust by the weight of a mile or so of ice? A thin groove in the bedrock would seem to indicate the rock travelled a long way without wearing down to nothing. Or would it become flat on one side and no longer cut a groove?. Has anyone seen a pile of moraine rocks flat on one side? Looking at glaciers, you see that the center moves much faster than at the sides, similar how the water flow in a river is much slower near the bank, so I think erosion there would be very slow. Plucking, or quarrying, seems to be a poorly thought out mechanism, IMO, and Wikipedia is looking for an expert to expand the entry. The image from the Åland Islands, close to finnos stomping grounds, looks very similar to formations I have seen around here. And the Norway coast is very much like the British Columbia coast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plucking_(glaciation) And anyway,it looks to me that the whole Gulf of Bothnia, and the Baltic, and Gulf of Finnland are a plasma excavation! I'll have to look into the WikiProject Geology and maybe add some of my ideas, how long before I'm given the boot? Thanks for the videos finno, I really need to get a video camera, or I was thinking stereo helmet cameras, as where I have been re-exploring, now with electric/plasma in mind, both hands are needed, and sometimes climbing gear. I have a few more images on my Picassa site: https://picasaweb.google.com/1133457513 ... 9765319170
webolife
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
Actually "plucking" is not poorly thought out, and rather has been observed quite directly in studies of the Nisqually glacier on Mt. Rainier, one of the fastest moving and changing glaciers in the world. The abrasion of the side walls of a glacier bed, and in the cirques of its highest reaches, results in glacier surfaces so dark with glacial debris as to camouflage a glacier almost entirely with surrounding bare rock. Stones frozen into the base of a glacier have been observed in ice caves. I observed some first hand a couple decades ago in the once famous but now mostly defunct Paradise Ice Caves on Rainier's south side. One of the common observations of streams such as the Paradise and Nisqually rivers among the many streams fed by Rainier's melting glaciers is the whiteness of the water due to the high concentration of "glacial flour" from the scoured glacial beds. And yes, I have observed scoured and striated moraine rocks on many hikes I have taken around Mt. Rainier; I point them out to my hiking companions (whether they wish me to or not ). These are virtually identical to those seen along the shoreline of the northern Puget Sound, as I mentioned earlier. Because of the flow dynamics of a glacier the rocks plucked from the glacier's origin/cirque often end up in the terminal moraine, while some of the side wall material end up in lateral moraines, although in a rapid melt back the rocks do get mixed together. I'm not sure if finno was confused or not about glacier flow direction, but the flow radiates away from the depositional center [especially in continental glaciation], so may not be simply north/south. In fact it is quite likely that some glacial centers in Canada sent glacial "rivers" northwest and northeast, as suggested by various diagrams of the Laurentide Ice sheet. Perhaps someone better with links than I can add some Google images to help picture this.
If the video above that you posted shows what you meant by "holes", i was mistaken in my response. Somehow i thought you were referring to 'sink holes', and is why i mentioned millenia of "drainage".
You video shows what might commonly be called pitting, or small pock marks. You may have seen similar morphology on depleted anodes on a boat hull.
Very similar, [but differing with the rock type], pitting is common all around the Caribbean islands.
In my non-expert opinion, it is a result of an electrolyticly enhanced erosion, ie electrolysis plus weathering from the elements (waves, wind, ice, water, acid rain, radiation, abrasion, and etcetera).
Nice looking country you have up there, would like to visit some time ... s
finno
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
Yeah, i can sign, that small potmarks are same like in caribian (or Malta, im seen pictures at this pages). Only different, usually that stones are soft limestone where erosion can make this. Finland rock and stones are very hard, and its not normal see that in here. but that's it…
Lloyd talked "electric wind" – that's new for me. Please Lloyd, can you tell more?
seasmith
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
f,
Did you notice figure #22 in my link: "Crevice Corrosion" ?
Stainless steel is Very hard, but when dis-similar materials are in close proximity, and in a moist galvanic environment, chemicals processes can be speeded up immensely. Those pits occurred in just 5 years.
Many rock types, although very hard, are composed of a mix of different minerals, in 'close proximity' . Add strong electro-magnetic flux fields, and a marine environment ... Well as mentioned, it's just a personal impression on many years of travel. I'm not a zealot.
With the potholes, the 3 accepted methods I have seen for their formation are pebbles or rocks swirling around and gradually increasing the size of the holes, the removal over long periods of time of softer rock formations in the basalt, or around here, glacial action along with swirling pebbles. I landed at this site, from India, where I would very much doubt glacialtion. I can only imagine one cause, but maybe I am just lacking imagination? Nighoj potholes
The potholes—spread over three kilometres with an average depth of over 100 feet—give the basin the look of a canyon. "This is a geographical phenomenon where the pebbles that are carried by the river get locked in the cracks developed in the basalt rock riverbed. These pebbles, which rotate due to the water current, form pot shaped cavities in the basalt rock. This is what you see in Nighoj. The process is spread over thousands of years. The river Ghataprabha has formed similar potholes at Gokak in Karnataka," says Tanuuja Marathe of the Department of Geology, Fergusson College.
That was real bomb see potholes in area, where never been ice age, or any kind glacial. Thanx. Potholes are intresting, because what more you reseach that's more problems come out. I show again couple. Biggest pothole what im seen my own eyes have diameter 14 m ja deep 23m. What kind watermass need to make that? Pacific Ocean? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... 4rvi_8.JPG and its not even biggest. Largest pothole in finland has diameter 400 meter, and now it is lake. http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakasaivo (By the way, lapland peoples believed this lake is place where dead peoples live at bottom – upside down) Im been hear, in Canada is much more bigger potholes like that, but they say in america everything is big.
and more problems. I founded this picture from NASA. Its top of south americas Andes. This ones aint born from glacial, but not even liquid water. Place is too high for this. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA02762.jpg
So now you all know my problem. In earth aint be that kind erosion power, what can make all this. There is potholes what you cant explain at liquid water or glacial. Do we want or not believe, we need potholes birth outside power. but what is that power? My guess is (ofcourse) electric universe – and that's im ready to believe, in Mars can also be potholes.
Lloyd
Re: Questioning the Ice Ages
* Finno asked for info about electric wind. Here's a link to it on mention of it on this website in TPODs etc: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthunder~. * As for potholes, Webo explained a few months ago, I think, that floods can produce them via cavitation effects, like underwater tornadoes. Since dry land tornadoes involve electrical forces, maybe the underwater ones would too. I think he also said that rocks rolling around by water action inside depressions in rock is a highly unlikely means of forming potholes.
). These are virtually identical to those seen along the shoreline of the northern Puget Sound, as I mentioned earlier. Because of the flow dynamics of a glacier the rocks plucked from the glacier's origin/cirque often end up in the terminal moraine, while some of the side wall material end up in lateral moraines, although in a rapid melt back the rocks do get mixed together. I'm not sure if finno was confused or not about glacier flow direction, but the flow radiates away from the depositional center [especially in continental glaciation], so may not be simply north/south. In fact it is quite likely that some glacial centers in Canada sent glacial "rivers" northwest and northeast, as suggested by various diagrams of the Laurentide Ice sheet. Perhaps someone better with links than I can add some Google images to help picture this.
